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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,230 |
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Valued Member
294 Posts |
Anybody finds it strange, the appearance of flake-y and glittery silvery portions only in areas convenient enough to reach with some implement or another? Also, the rainbow toning in one area along the rim, which appears on both sides, same spot. And a dull toned brass-y color where there isn't silver. These points are what bother me. I had done lots of searches online prior to bidding and was convinced enough by the appearance of the legends. Looked on coinfactswiki and online coin shops, where the size of the legends matched, in contrast to those on (Not Allowed), where they were noticeably rounder than smaller, and where rainbow toned replicas were also available. Now that I have the coin in hand and am able to examine it close up however, I'm just not so convinced. Coin measures 40.5mm, is 2.25mm at thickest point, and weighs 28.75g, which falls within the range I've observed from data available online. Did the ping test, sounds dull and not resonant at all. It is very slightly bent and spins like a whirlwind on the portraits of the 3 brothers.      This might just be the one that puts me off seeking out old German thalers... |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Can you take pictures of both sides of the whole coin? Not my area of collecting, but from what I can see I agree there might be reasons for concern.
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Valued Member
 294 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
Thanks for the better pictures. I really didn't see any red flags that would make me think it's cast. It think it's genuine, but lets see what others with more knowledge of this type think.
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Moderator
United States
34430 Posts |
@sg93, it looks to me like a mount was removed at 12 o'clock on the obv. To me, the bend and other damage lends it an air of respectability. Also you haven't posted a pic of the edge of the coin. Especially with cheap counterfeits, you will often see a parting line there. I'm not concerned about the toning in between letters in the inscription. I'm leaning toward real, but would like to hear what others say.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Valued Member
294 Posts |
Pictures of the edge. Yes they show no signs of being cast.     The thing that bothers me though is that it appears from several sources that counterfeiters, whether in China or other former eastern bloc countries, have access to the type of equipment, dies and all, to produce various coins to an exacting degree of accuracy, but the best part is they are clever enough to also replicate wear. I've been able to find pictures of counterfeit German and Austrian thalers from German forums that don't look suspicious at all, but have been marked as high-quality counterfeits by the contributor of those pictures. On the side, how does rainbow toning of this sort happen, especially on centuries old silver coins like this type, and would it be correct to assume that they should tone differently than modern coins of similar silver purity and alloy type? |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
It appears genuine to me. My guess is that is was a mounted piece for many years and was cleaned numerous times... After being removed from the mount, it finally started to tone up a bit... Tone looks similar to that of other pieces which were stored in paper envelopes at some point in their history
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Valued Member
294 Posts |
Thanks for expounding on those points. if I'm not wrong, sulfuric compounds in paper envelopes would've been the main culprit that cause rainbow toning like this?
If I may ask, what do you make of the isolated areas on the field where there are a grainy looking silver color, like in picture 2 of the first post, between the letters in the legend? My main concern about this is that it looks like inconsistent silvering, and since the coin looks dull yellow in most parts of the field, excepting on the obverse and the edge, I got pretty suspicious.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
Quote:
if I'm not wrong, sulfuric compounds in paper envelopes would've been the main culprit that cause rainbow toning like this? Exactly. A couple of years ago, I acquired a collection which had been stored in paper envelopes for many, many years... The circulated silver all had very similar toning to the tone that this piece exhibits, and I have seen much the same on other pieces stored within paper envelopes... In photo number 2, where is your area of concern? I am not sure I am seeing it from that photo? |
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Valued Member
294 Posts |
Would you happen to have seen or know anything about the replica thalers selling? I could've sworn I'd seen a 1592 replica of this thaler with similar toning pattern, although days later all I found were those too obviously intentionally toned, rainbow patches all over. And from their listings it appears that they make toned, worn or rainbow toned pieces.
Before the F and between the R and A. The same characteristic in question shows up on other parts of the coin which I haven't photographed yet.
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Valued Member
294 Posts |
can anybody offer some opinions and observations on this coin? I'm planning to return it and the deadline is nigh but would really like to be sure if it's real or fake.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,230 |
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Posted 08/23/2016 08:00 am
