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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Sounds like at best you have a trial or test piece, would look really cool if CCCS has a dual slab with the original coin if they offer such an option, still kind of cool.
Without it being determined who applied the gold-plating, you can't be seriously suggesting CCCS become involved in that type of business? Applying metallic paint to a metal object is child's play, check out supplies at a craft store. Counterfeit - a fraudulent imitation of something else; a forgery.Mint errors can certainly be forged, we know that for a fact. Often it's also referred to as PMD, if it appears to be intentional. What is concerning about this particular piece, by virtue of CCCS certifying it as a Mint Error without any specific validation, the door has been opened....wait and watch. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Where did I suggest CCCS tampered with this coin, I have enough faith that they did their tests and other facts to in their opinion that it is a RCM created coin and by labelling mint error on it, one can infer that my opinion only that it's at best a trial or test piece but I also mentioned several times earlier that if this coin was not on a gold planchet, it could be copied, but I would never say the owner or CCCS would tamper with this coin, there must be some other logical reason CCCS did not share for slabbing this coin. Edited by john100
01/10/2017 6:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
After all the waiting, and discussions, Jake222 has closed his account?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Where did I suggest CCCS tampered with this coin
I did not suggest that, I was referring to dual slabbing painted coins as comparable but unconfirmed mint errors. The fact that in the photo the plastic insert was cracked is an obvious indication of tampering mentioned numerous times in this thread. Nobody has explained how anyone can determine at what point paint/gold plating was applied. Quote:
there must be some other logical reason CCCS did not share for slabbing this coin.
 There must? Louis was very forthcoming in explaining the basis of what he clarified to be an "opinion". Edited by wildflowerAB
01/10/2017 6:47 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The owner has said from the onset that he bought the coin at a CP outlet with a damaged case, sent photos as is, had another collector help send to CCCS and all seems to concur it's a RCM coin thus todays results. I am almost sure someone without much experience and without a commercial plating operation would create a fake obvious to the expert, even so this kind of error is not really sought after and has limited value why would they fake? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Aside from the color, what's more of an error or variety is the fact that the numerals in the date are different than that of the regular coloured release. Very noticeably the 2 the 1 and obviously the 0. The date itself also appears to be smaller than the normal version? When comparing its spacing to the ships masts and edge. the "YB" initial is different, also relating to its spacing from the edge to the left and water line below it. And obviously the guys arm is missing a part circled. The graded gold coloured coin also looks like it's lacking some frosting where the normal colour coin has frosting. Is it just me or is the guy in the hat on the left have a different beard? The op did post a pic of the Queen side, totally normal obverse. There is a lot more going on with the details of this coin than just the plating from what I can see. It also appears that the entirety of the reverse is plated even under the ship. Maybe cccs can confirm that this was struck with a different reverse die than used on the other colourized trans Atlantic dollars? If so, the coin is in a complete league of its own, as in a different die was used. Maybe some here viewing these pictures, that have been posted previously by the op and and canadian_coins. Can you see enough detail here to confirm a different die struck this coin?     Edited by Alan
01/10/2017 8:35 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
@ John. Who's the other collector who helped the OP send the coin in? Either you might not have noticed that Jake and Jakko are one and the same, or maybe you're thinking of the other CCCS submission, the 2017 Toonie? As far as a reason counterfeit fakes might be created......why and how RCM would create this error is a more valid question. My comment earlier - are we to believe that gold-plated NCLT are hand painted or are they stamped during automated high-speed and preset production. If nobody knows the answer, how can anybody deem the error is authentic? I'm not being snarky. My basis of comparison is, for example circulation coins, the possibility of certain errors is considered through the understanding of mint procedures. @ Alan. Thanks the reminder of the excellent illustration by Canadian_Coins. Edited by wildflowerAB
01/10/2017 8:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
In my opinion no one is going to gold plate anything at home with so much intricate detail..it isn't worth the time or effort..and no way would it look like a professional well done job..their are 2 obvious choices..
1.. China crap but in a holder..
2.. mint proto type or trial piece tossed into the line..
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1354 Posts |
John100 Do you have proof it was bought at a post office? Do you truly know he's inexperienced? Do you know he has no access to ways of plating coins? He's got 22 posts put in on 1 topic.... maybe it was his test to see if he could slide it by a TPG company. He appears to have been successful... it may not be the priciest error but it's still going to command a premium. Again,, maybe it is legit but I don't believe CCCS was 100% sure. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
Real or fake, if the technology exists that is good enough to fool all of us and potentially TPG companies, the hobby is in serious trouble |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
My SD is impossible to photograph because the silver portion is ultra reflective. Here's a pic from Coins Unlimited, but without the dark reflection in the sky. Only the ship and ocean are painted, the rest is silver. Why would it be so difficult to Gold-plate the face of the coin? Gold-plating leaves a gold colour where the silver once was, the same as the OPs coin appears. The painted portion reveal an odd yellowish cast that's a different tone to the standard.  Perhaps just my eye but in the variance photo copied by Alan, the two seamen almost appear as if they're covered in a layer of paint that causes cloudiness of detail. Edited by wildflowerAB
01/10/2017 9:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2984 Posts |
If it is a Mint error, shouldn't there be more than one of them?
Also, how did such an obvious error pass inspection?
I would think someone on a assembly line, putting the coins in the case, would be seeing hundreds (thousands) of them pass through his hand, and all of a sudden a different colour coin comes along. It should be easy to spot and put aside.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
Was it mentioned by CCCS if it has been verified that the coin is in fact silver? The fact that the coin does have differences from authentic (normal) coins does raise an eyebrow. I think it is a darn cool coin anyway it turns out. I have no idea what to make of it so won't call it a mint error, full out conterfeit, or PMD. The fact it is in a slab is interesting. I've never had anything graded and would probably fail at grading as well, but I can understand why CCCS took so long with this coin. I still can't wrap my head around how this could have left the mint unnoticed. I've never taken the tour nor seen the mint but I would assume that at some point, someone, somewhere would have seen it during the production phase, packaging phase, or even at Canada post where it was purchased and certainly would have noticed it was different. But then again, the "pumping machine" (lol. I laughed only because someone else did) makes so many coins and they seem like they're still recovering from a New Year's Eve 2015 hangover so I suppose it is possibly that even they can't keep track of what they're minting. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
First am getting mixed up with the 2017 toonie, have no connection with poster, could have easily just sent photo of coin only and not mentioned damage, I too was expecting more clarification over the label, they are willing to stake their reputation by slabbing it. I too was very confused with the 1996 antique finish Macintosh dollar, which CCCS slab originally after he got a RCM confirmation letter, a year or two latter a second one came up for sale at TCNC which I purchased with the explanation of it's creation, it just amazing what higher RCM employees are allowed to do. There are tons of good and not so good fakes of recent NCLT that nobody seems to care |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
I feel bad for silver dollar collectors. Good luck finding another one of these bad boys. Watch them start popping up all over ebay for $5.99. Lol. |
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Posted 01/10/2017 6:07 pm
