I agree. Different. Not the same. As to it being a mint prototype, it's not the "The Simpson's" where Homer just tossed a prototype of a coin into the production line. At least I hope. Is it possible that this is a ploy to create buzz about the RCM? Between this coin, the 2017 regular twoonie, and stories of gold pucks being stolen, I suppose anything is possible. As a side note, The newish silver penny set with pink gold plating comes to mind for have 2 different designs regarding the pink gold plating if I'm not mistaken. I know the image on the website was different than the emails from reps but I haven't heard of 2 designs in the hands of collectors. It does illustrate though, that somethings can get switched at the last moment I suppose. This has got to be one of the hardest coins CCCS has dealt with in a long time. I don't know what I would have done in their shoes.
I think it's cool but I would not buy it if I had the chance. That's me saying its awsome if it's legit but could just the same not be. I'd really like to know if it has been verified as being silver. If it's not.... How long was your trip from China Mr. Coin?
I'm of the belief this is a pattern or trial IMO. Maybe they originally intended to offer a gold plated with color version for the premium proof set and this is the design originally intended.
cccs had this in hand, so I won't second guess them. I do however wish for interest sake that they would have stated if it was in fact a completely different die that struck this, aside from the plating. I find that to be very interesting, and I don't think my eyes are playing tricks, it's a different die.
Most numismatists would put much more of a premium on a different die with noticeable differences such as size of date etc vs. a variety of gold plated finish.
Does anyone know how selective plating is added, or how colouring is applied, or are these RCM secrets? Is the coin struck then coloured and or plated?
This is a short video showing the application of the paint on the flag quarters. That NCLT frequently features paint indicates the automated process is likely similar.
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Question - Does anyone other than myself have the coin in question? Because looking at it, if there's 2 different dies, I cannot seem to associate mine to one or another. What I'm thinking is flat photographs of a ultra shiny coin can be misleading because the raised areas are 3-dimentional and appear to cast a confusing array of reflections and shadows.
It would be interesting to see a crisp shot of the actual colorized transatlantic coin. I agree with you, shadows and reflections can be very misleading when comparing two similar shiny objects.
This set is almost certain that it's third party assemble, so the Simpson idea could have happened, this coin if it came to auction even as a trial piece will garner very little action. The only NCLT highly priced lately is in CC&C showcase a lovely triple or four struck gold coin in a PCGS holder for around 20,000 bucks, now that's an error coin, and how did it leave the RCM.
You're welcome. This ebay seller did a pretty good job but you can see a reflection of his or her finger behind the "2016". The upper sky area of the coin is so highly polished that it reflects mirror images. But the photo does portray the frosted areas very accurately.
@ John. Yes, I agree. The mint die would be required to strike, triple or more, the coin so at least it could be determined to be a genuine mint error even if it couldn't be explained. When it comes to paint or gold-plating errors (or possible fabrications), the mint does not hold the monopoly on colour.
Quote: CCCS is the only company doing errors and most varieties and we will never please everyone. If you want to help CCCS send us material to be certified.
You should clarify that Louis, to state that you are the only Canadian company certifying errors. US grading companies, like PCGS, send their error submissions out to established experts in the field, like Fred Weinberg and Jon Sullivan. I participate in a forum where even those guys, reach out for other opinions on errors, with inputs from Mike Diamond and Jeff Ylitalo. Are you a member of CONECA Louis? The journal from that society is well worth it and you have access to a whole group of experienced error collectors.
Quote: Our Canadian competitor stick to "real" coins, yet, they have certified a $2 with a rotated core...a 1914 10 cents with Edward on the obverse...a 25 cents 1921 and a cent 1891 both also counterfeit...need I say more.
I have a coin in my inventory graded by PCGS as MS65RB 1880 Oval 0 NFLD cent and the coin is a Round 0, major difference in price. Did I mention that I have never been able to obtain from them that they buy it back since they made such a major booboo.
I don't think those comments were necessary Louis. Would you have been able to determine the 1891 large cent as a counterfeit, knowing it was struck using an 1888 obverse?
Do you want examples of wrongly attributed error coins and varieties in CCCS holders splashed all over the coin forums? All you have to do is ask...
Quote: This is a short video showing the application of the paint on the flag quarters. That NCLT frequently features paint indicates the automated process is likely similar.
Nope. Not even remotely similar. You are comparing mass production strikes made in Winnipeg versus a NCLT coin struck in proof, made in Ottawa. Proof struck coins in Ottawa are mostly handled by hand, by individuals wearing white gloves and they operate the presses one coin at a time (watch the Rick Mercer video tour of the mint). Collectors of these coins cannot stand it, if the coin is not perfect to the naked eye, so while there is automation to these coins, it is not a high-speed production, especially after the proof striking.
If I had that coin for a day in my labs at work, I could tell you in a heartbeat what the nature of that gold colour is, and with the electron microscope, I could tell you if the selective plating regions matched the "plating" seen in the fields, and if the gold was of the same chemistry... I guess we'll never know now...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
Proof struck coins in Ottawa are handled by hand, by individuals wearing white gloves and they operate the presses one coin at a time (watch the Rick Mercer video tour of the mint). Collectors of these coins cannot stand it, if the coin is not perfect to the naked eye, so there is very little automation to these coins, especially after the proof striking.
I noticed the Mercer video was taken in about 2009.
But then in 2014 RCM announced "The high-speed colour pad printing technology we unveiled at the Mint."
Today I learned that I do not know enough about the hobby to continue buying coins. If the best in the biz can't figure some of these coins out, and fakes are slipping past ALL third party graders and getting slabbed, I'd certainly fail the real/fake test. As to the coin in question in this topic, I'll sit back and watch the pros settle it out. I'd like to know if it is actually silver. Anybody know or test it?
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Posted 01/10/2017 10:02 pm
