Interesting Late-19th Century Coin Of Mystery And Trade Dollar Of It's Era

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 1,454
Diirizzyl New Member United States 48 Posts	Posted 09/18/2016 4:52 pm Recently I began learning the rich history of United States coinage and the old world currencies that it evolved from. Especially about our planet's first large-scale global currency, the Spanish milled 8 reales, or pillar/portrait dollars. I found a decent looking example online and soon learned that it was most likely a very convincing reproduction made specifically for trade with overseas economies. The US Trade dollars weren't accepted as well as the long-circulating Colonial Spain minted pieces of eight. So this apparently led to trading companies to begin minting their own milled Spanish colonial portrait dollars, true to original in every form except for recently uncovered conditions then unknown, about precious metal content in US made silver versus period-true Mexico made silver. Much of this lore is included here in the coin community forums as comments and topics made by the folks and fans who collaborated on "Counterfeit Portrait Eight-Reales: The Un-real Reales", an extensive book on the subject. I look forward to hopefully generating some further discussion on this subject here. Edited by Diirizzyl 09/18/2016 5:01 pm Report this Post to the Staff

jbuck Moderator United States 188510 Posts	Posted 09/20/2016 4:52 pm Quote: I look forward to hopefully generating some further discussion on this subject here. Because of the overlap, I have moved this out to the Main Coin Forum to attract some discussion. Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
Spence Moderator United States 34410 Posts	Posted 09/20/2016 7:37 pm Quote: first large-scale global currency, the Spanish milled 8 reales Hmm, not sure I agree exactly. How are you defining large-scale and global? "If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb "The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz Report this Post to the Staff
jgenn Pillar of the Community United States 1156 Posts	Posted 09/20/2016 11:18 pm Quote: How are you defining large-scale and global? In terms of a specific currency, I would say the quantity of circulation in North and South America, Europe and Asia. Perhaps we can agree that the more complete colonization of Africa and Australia, and the ensuing circulation of large quantities of international currency, can be consider as post-global phenomenon. As far as earliest, the Spanish and Portuguese had a head start in colonization; by the 17th century the Dutch, English and French also had global empires. So which of these could claim the largest quantity of circulation at this time? Spain found rich silver deposits in Mexico in 1522 and Potosi in 1545. La Casa de Moneda de Mexico was established as the oldest mint in the Americas in 1535. The wikipedia article on the Global silver trade from the 16th to 18th centuries indicates that "From 1500 to 1800 Mexico and Peru produced about 80% of the world's silver with 30% of it eventually ending up in China". Clearly, much of this global trade was done in 8 reales. Report this Post to the Staff
jgenn Pillar of the Community United States 1156 Posts	Posted 09/20/2016 11:24 pm In the USA, Dr. John Leonard Riddell, during his appointment as melter and refiner of the New Orleans Mint, published a monograph in 1845 that stated "More than 90 per cent. of the Dollars in general circulation in this country, bear the Mexican stamp. This arises from two facts: 1st. There is far more silver produced from the mines of Mexico, than from the mines of all the world besides: 2d. It is, and has been, the policy of that government, to prevent the export of uncoined bullion, the government deriving a large revenue from its coinage, amounting, I have been informed, to 10 per cent. During the days of Spanish rule, near $23,000,000 in silver were annually obtained from the mines; since the Mexican independence probably $15,000,000 would more nearly express the annual amount. The Mexican Dollar, at the present day, holds the place in the commerce of the world, held forty years ago by the famous Spanish American Pillar Dollar." Report this Post to the Staff
Diirizzyl New Member United States 48 Posts	Posted 09/22/2016 6:40 pm Awesome elaborations, jgenn! There is much more I'd like to learn about this subject, and have been considering purchasing Mr. Gurney's book about the counterfeit silver coins made for trade with the East during mid/late 19th into early 20th centuries. I'd also really love to find myself a decent VF/XF Mo Portrait dollar. Know any good places to look for one of these? Report this Post to the Staff
jgenn Pillar of the Community United States 1156 Posts	Posted 09/22/2016 10:35 pm I highly recommend Bob Gurney's book. For the obvious reasons, you should be very careful about buying 8 reales. Heritage Auctions weekly world auctions often have certified 8 reales in medium grades, although the TPGs do make mistakes with their authentication. Report this Post to the Staff
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