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 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,918 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
I have mentioned several times before about the "wide rim" and "narrow rim" varieties of Japanese 1 rin coins, but never got around to illustrating my point.   Neither Numista, NGC, nor any other online catalog even recognizes the existence of this variety, even when they go in depth about the type 1 or type 2 Mei character (both types are on these coins... the difference is the presence or lack of a connecting stroke). I don't have a very large sample size, due to the relative scarcity of these coins for reasonable prices, but as near as I can tell, the change happened in Meiji 9, or 1877. This is also when the 1/2, 1 and 2 sen switched from square scales to V scales. Perhaps Bungle or gxseries is aware of a better explanation of this variety? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1003 Posts |
Very neat variety indeed! I don't know anything about this specific variety, but I hope you get an answer soon. Thanks for sharing.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6130 Posts |
Thanks! Here is the NGC page for the denomination, for those who are curious: https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...-duid-302089The coins in my OP are M8/1875 (left) and M17/1884 (right). The common dates are easy to find in high grades, but the series is home to some insane key dates. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
they do not look to be the same. The writing is different characters, perhaps the rim thing is because they were minted in different years, or under different rulers.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1346 Posts |
Are they equally common/scarce. Are you the "discover" of the variety?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
The calligraphy varieties are well known and documented. I don't know the specifics so well (detailed writings are only published in Japanese) but Japan did struggle for some time with modern minting technology... after all in the 1850s they were in complete isolation, and in 1869 they were still were making cast cash coins and hammered ingot bars. The early coins had some problems that were fixed incrementally through the last bit of the 19th century.
Bungle had mentioned that some Japanese catalogs refer "non-standard diameter varieties" in the early Rin coins... I do wonder if they were even collared during the striking? Based on the crescent shape within the rim of the 1875, I think this theory might be likely. These coins are very small and thin, 15.75mm and weighing under a gram.
As for "discovering" the variety, I doubt that I am the first to notice this. I just haven't been able to find a page or discussion on this variety.
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Moderator
 United States
188770 Posts |
Nice comparison. That is an obvious difference, not sure why it would remain unrecognized.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
if one looks at the left hand coin in the first posted picture, starting at about 9 o'clock and moving clockwise one sees three characters then a dot then four characters.
on the right hand coin starting at about 9 o'clock three characters a dot then 5 characters.
Whatever they are saying is different
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
I see what you are saying. The coins are from different years, Meiji 8 (looks like /\) and Meiji 17 (looks like +t). It takes a little getting used to.
Unfortunately, I don't have a coin from the hypothetical transition year (Meiji 9) because those are so rare I have never even seen a photograph of one.
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
Love the topic headline. It's like trekking through the Amazon and finding a new species, nice find. A similar series of coins with variety where people overlook is the People's Republic of China aluminium coins with small and slightly larger stars. Edited by Numister
10/17/2016 10:45 pm
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Bungle to the rescue  I have an 1882 rin floating around somewhere... I will have to check it to see if it has the wide or narrow rim. Curious that these varieties are unlisted... I had always assumed that Japanese catalogs were exhaustively complete, since Hartill mentioned over a hundred separate varieties of 100 mon calligraphy styles in his book. I guess this just isn't a popular denomination for varieties. |
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New Member
Japan
1 Posts |
The wide and narrow rim varities are not documented in the Japanese catalog but the kanji variation is. This visible trait may be debated but is widely known to numismatic collectors in Japan. All 1 rins are minted during the Meiji Era.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
 to CCF Kinsan! Sorry I didn't notice your reply earlier. If you have any 1 rin coins to share, we would love to see them! |
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Valued Member
Korea, Republic Of
489 Posts |
Is it really a variety if they are from two different years? I mean the A and M are spaced differently on pennies throughout the years of production, but the spacing between years is not a varient, but just how the die was made that year.
Now if you had a 1 Rin from the same year but with a thin and wide rim, THEN I would understand. This is not that case here though.
Edited by Lembafc
06/08/2017 9:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
Sorry, saw this thread a bit late. But I promise I'll stir things around to make it really "exciting". I did some investigation and tried hard to find images of the illusive Meiji 9 and 13 1 rin. I didn't just want to direct link the image so please scroll down - it's somewhere around the middle. It is a comparison what a genuine coin should look like against a counterfeit. http://1st.geocities.jp/mrf454_pp/HTML/iNise.htmlSo it may seem that the narrow rim was introduced in Meiji 15. But here's the twist - there seems to be a narrow example introduced already in Meiji 8! https://coins.ha.com/itm/japan/meij...ction-120115As of why it was a wide rim - this is indeed quite odd. The original pattern 1 rin coins feature narrower rims. Maybe this was necessary to strike copper coins that is so small. Over the years, the mint managed to resolve it. The large 1 yen coin is a prime example if I remember correctly. There were reports that the minting press was imported from Hong Kong and Osaka Mint did struggle striking 1 yen coins consistently. This also reminds me of the Manchukuo coins that I have been investigating. http://goccf.com/t/289199Don't you "love" finding new varieties coins?  |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,918 |
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Posted 10/17/2016 2:23 pm
