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Is My 1893 CC Morgan Dollar A Fake?

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Imthealphaomega's Avatar
United States
3210 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2016  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imthealphaomega to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the other coins look fine. The 93CC is most suspicious cause of the CC mintmark, all circulated Morgan's are going to lose a little bit of weight. I think the CC is fake cause of the mintmark and the date looks off. All the others look ok to me.
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twodsonegf's Avatar
United States
637 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2016  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twodsonegf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No need to buy a caliper. Just grab a small stack of authentic Morgans and throw the suspect coins in the middle. They tend to be obviously wider. If you look at a lot of Morgans, you can tell just by looking at the thickness with the naked eye and no comparison needed. This may not be true in all cases, but certainly has been with all counterfeits I have seen.
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2016  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again thanks for the replies. @twodsonegf I couldn't find any small calipers. I've got to order them off the net. Here are some pics for comparison. The CC is in the middle. The outer 2 coins weighed-in properly. I don't see any difference. I compared it to others as well. I think the best thing to do is just send it in to one of the grading agencies.

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2016  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here it is compared to one I know is fake. A friend gave me this when I was sick in the hospital. She purchased it from a flea market. The weight of the counterfeit is 24.9 grams.

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?
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twodsonegf's Avatar
United States
637 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2016  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twodsonegf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe I was wrong about the obvious difference in thickness, but all of the ones I have seen are obvious. I would not waste the time/money to send it in though as it does not appear to be authentic.
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2016  07:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@twodsonegf I would agree with you if this was a newly purchased coin. But when you own a collectible for thirty years or more, I think it's fair to say that most would want to find out the 100% truth.

@dave700x, any other thoughts when viewing the comparisons I posted?

@cascade, ditto?
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2016  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would get an opinion from a local dealer then I guess. To me the mint mark is completely wrong based on your images but hey, it could be the images. Good luck.
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twohawks's Avatar
United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2016  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin is with 99.9% certainty a counterfeit. There are only 2 reverse die's known to have ever been used, and your coin is so far off of any of the 2 in mint mark placement its not even close.

Here is a enlarged photo of your coins mint mark and then the known mint marks, I have placed your coin up twice so you can have a comparison right next to each of them.



Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?
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twohawks's Avatar
United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2016  09:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also the closest date placement is the VAM-1 but the mint mark on the 1st "C" looks to be to fat to your viewers left. and the design of the letters looks to be vary wrong, it could be ware but mint marks don't move around.
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NoPoMoCo's Avatar
United States
403 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2016  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NoPoMoCo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MikeF, the Chinese have been frighteningly good at forgeries for a long time. That's what they do. Most are obvious, but some very good forgeries fool the experts. I'm not an expert or even close and often wonder about many of my coins. The magnetic test, the ring test, mass and dimension tolerances, macro-micro marker observations, then less-tangible experience and gut feelings are the tools we have. TPGs presumably have analytical resources to bear and if you really want the best evaluation available (and are willing to pay for it) send it in. Because of the provenance of your coin I'd want to know.

That said, I wanted to make a few observations of my own. According to PCGS CoinFacts on the 1893-CC, there are 5 VAMs known with 4 distinct obverses and 3 reverses. http://www.PCGScoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/7222. If genuine, your coin would seem to fit VAM-4. http://www.vamworld.com/1893-CC+VAM-4. Here's one from my collection, weighing 26.15 g. Please compare and check your coin for the markers. If mine is a forgery then yours and mine probably come from the same place, which ain't the Carson City mint.

Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?


Is-My-1893-CC-Morgan-Dollar-A-Fake?
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again thanks for the responses. Great news! It's real. I finally got around to taking it in. I looped around the city to two different coin shops and both gave the thumbs up. The first one had one of those machines that checks the coin's composition and the levels were a match. Also they were nice enough to show me the difference between mine and known counterfeits they had in shop. The sound check was the most noticeable. We looked at dates too but I couldn't tell any difference. Apparently I don't have the eye for it yet. Maybe it's the picture but I'm amazed at how many naysayers are out there. They did tell me it's probably not worth sending in due to the improper cleaning but I might just do it anyway. Aside from the cleaning the coins in good condition.
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NoPoMoCo's Avatar
United States
403 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NoPoMoCo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great news MikeF! I'm glad you're seeking expert opinion. Having the coin in hand is key to authentication. Pictures obviously can be deceiving. Please keep us informed... which TPG are you considering?
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MikeF's Avatar
United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks NoPoMo, I'm not sure yet. PCGS seems to be the leader. I'm open to suggestions. Also the fist coin shop had one of the best selections of early dollars I've ever seen. They had a 1799 draped bust PCGS VF-25 for $2,500 that I'm seriously considering buying. If you're ever in the Kansas City Metro area check out Americana Coins in Independence MO. Definitely worth the drive.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2016  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Send it in to ANACS. They are the least expensive and John Roberts is a VAM oracle.
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