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To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,212 |
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Valued Member
United States
356 Posts |
I am interested in member feedback. I know some of you will disagree with me. That's ok. I stand by my position and wanted everyone to reflect on this. This is my e-mail to said vendor. See Letter to Vendor: I have agreed to accept a full refund in the amount of $1027.32. The account will be closed and full disclosure of this event made public to my extensive circle of collectors. Coin dealers are a dime a dozen (pun intended), competition is extensive and the options afforded collectors such as myself is not a short list. I have included over four hundred buyers from Heritage via BCC in this e-mail. In closing, after dealing with the disagreeable, petty, and vile figure Cristiano Bierrenbach I am relieved that this concludes my business with your company. This man seemed livid that I was disputing $46 and that I was demanding people work for free. I feel Heritage inspite of becoming a large and successful company has somehow decided to exercices a level of customer service beneath even the dignity of Wal-mart, such as it is. This was a matter of principle, one obviously not seen by Cristiano. This was about disclosure. A coin you sold me was questioned by several experts on 4th century Roman Solidi. I had planned to compensate David Sear and have him authenticate this coin, as we live near each other. I was dissuaded by your team and told NGC could do it instead. I later learned, as it is prominently displayed on their website that unlike Dr Sear, NGC does not authenticate Ancient Coins. They merely slab coins they feel are authentic. When I personally drove down to L.A and delivered this coin I was not told that any fee would be associated with this service, albeit if I had been told this, my instict would have been to instead pay that fee to David Sear, my original choice for authentication. A crude analogy would be if I had ordered a Turkey Sandwich with Tomatoes, and later learned I would be charged for those Tomatoes. I don't believe Tomatoes are a free commodity albeit I would have felt my server, as is required under the law, would have disclosed this fee to me prior to my ordering said tomatoes. The incredibly short sighted nature of Heritage in this matter is mind boggling. Are the founder and partners so wealthy that they have no further need of clients, do they instruct their executives to antagonize clients? Is this a core company policy? In good faith, Heritage could have simply waived the fee, a gesture in this case warranted by lack of disclosure, and retained a client that spends hundreds of thousands a year on numismatics. Coin collecting aside, I am also a business man. I made my fortune in the financial crisis, retired at 30. I know what Warran Buffett, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs would have done. Steve, would have behaved in a more disreputable matter than even Heritage, which is why I have never owned an Apple Product or done business witht them. The other esteemed gentleman strive to place the customer first and having dined with each of them I can assure you that all would have behaved with more decorum and grace than Cristiano. Shame on Heritage. The writings on the wall.... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1660 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I have never dealt with HA so I have no knowledge of their customer service, but I wonder if the person that you had contact with actually speaks for the company or is just some rude office clerk that has a clip on his shoulder and thinks he can make policy. If I were a customer that spends thousands of dollars with them, I would demand to speak with that persons boss. In any event a certified letter would be sent to the company president voicing my complaints.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
C77, I'm a bit unclear on what transpired. Quote:
When I personally drove down to L.A and delivered this coin I was not told that any fee would be associated with this service I'm assuming that the drive to L.A. was to a Heritage location, to return the coin. Is that correct? And the fee was what? Some sort of restocking/return fee that they had made no prior mention of? This all concerns the Theodosius I solidus that you posted about before, right? I assume you still had some misgivings despite the two Sear-trained fellows' certification that you mentioned. You had sounded relieved in the post where you reported their endorsement. Like all of us, I've had my share of irritation with businesses that broke promises. And I can understand getting PO'ed if you are being charged a fee that wasn't explained up front. You're correct that they should be accountable for that fee. And if Bierrenbach was a ___, then his bosses should be made aware of the fact. Having said all that, do you think that a cool-headed, concise letter that states the facts, expresses your great disappointment in a company you have regularly purchased from and trusted - and, I would add, promoted to numerous collectors when proudly showing off your purchases online - would garner more productive results (i.e. reimbursement) than a clearly (and justifiably) angry letter? You could state that, after giving shout-outs to HA over the years via the forums, that you'd hate to have anything negative to report to the online community. (The threat there is clear, but it's delivered coolly) I would underscore that you'd greatly prefer to be able to report - to the many folks who follow your posts - a satisfactory resolution that reinforces continuing confidence in HA's customer service. It's a different tack, I realize, and requires a bit of swallowing of one's pride - with no guarantee of better results, I realize. Just a thought. P.S. I just reread your post above...perhaps you already sent the email to HA? Or are you running it by us here for opinions first, before hitting the "send" button? Edited by Kamnaskires
11/04/2016 6:35 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
356 Posts |
I had driven to LA offices of Heritage to drop coin off for shipment to NGC. Yes, this in regards to the original coin posted. The disputed fee was for a NGC charge, which was not disclosed nor had it been would I have paid it. I would rather have paid Sear. Then Heritage holds my coin hostage until I paid this fee. When I email them regarding this poor service the President calls me and is quite rude. This was no low level clerk. In the end they are refunding me full coin price and we are done. I should add that I was called back and apologized to after I sent this email.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Ah, I hadn't realized it had already been sent. Glad to hear you received the apology, although of course it may well have been offered more in response to your threat to make this public than for any sincere regret.
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
If it was only a clerk I could understand and bump it up to the boss, but being the president that was being rude I would not buy from them again either even with the apology.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I hope I'm not misunderstanding, but was this unpleasant ordeal all over NGC stabbing charges?
I can't imagine that you were unaware that they charged a fee for their service. Or perhaps you thought Heritage should pay that fee.
In any event I only spend in the low 5 figures per year with them but I've never received anything but first class service, even when I had to return a coin.
They've even shipped my orders before I paid on two occasions when I was gone on vacation and without any kind of wire service.
I really am sorry to hear of your troubles with them. For me, I rely on them quite heavily to find what I'm looking for, since I'm often looking for rather tough coins.
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Valued Member
United States
356 Posts |
This coin was acquired without a slab, nor do I ever want my ancient coins slabbed. When authenticity was questioned by several experts in the field, I expressed concerns and desired to have Sear look it over. Heritage had a different plan. I bring the coin to them, and they would send it out for review by NGC. No mention was made of any charge, regardless of whether the coin came back authenticated or not, nor did I want it slabbed. They clearly could have said, "Listen, if this comes back authenticated you owe us $46." I would have replied, Thank you, but I will let Sear look it over and we can go from there. I am well aware that NGC charges a service for their coin service and slabbing. However, this was an unusual case that required better communication on the part of Heritage.
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
Quote:
The incredibly short sighted nature of Heritage in this matter is mind boggling.  I think the Turkey Sandwich with Tomatoes is a good analogy except you wouldn't have actually gotten the tomatoes. You could ask about tomatoes, and be assured that you would tomatoes, but you would not get them and you would have to pay for them. It's shameful that NGC charges $46 for a plastic case and no guarantee of authenticity. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
Quote:
It's shameful that NGC charges $46 for a plastic case and no guarantee of authenticity. They refuse to slab coins they believe are fake then hide behind the "cannot guarantee authenticity" of the coins they do slab. Either slab everything including fakes or guarantee what they slab. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1269 Posts |
@ceasar77
I am sorry that you had these difficulties. I completely understand your intent to never deal with these people again. I admit to having looked at their auctions and thought about bidding. However, the fact that 99% of their coins are in slabs turns me off. I have only bought 2 coins in slabs because I wanted the coin. The slabs had a brief but decisive meeting with my hammer. I just do not understand the slabbing of ancients.
Thanks to your post I will choose to take my money elsewhere. I was reluctant to buy from them before, but I am now set against it. There are plenty of coins and coin dealers out there so I refuse to deal with those who treat their customers this way.
Thanks for spreading this story around.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
Having not heard both sides of the story I wont comment of the rights/wrongs but good job on the letter writing...I too will not own any product manufactured by apple and it sounds like a fair point well made about the short sightedness of customer care these days...
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Valued Member
United States
408 Posts |
Without seeing the original listing and hearing both sides of the tale, I cannot take a side one way or the other. I'm not for or against anyone based on the information contained in this post.
One must understand that, when you go into someone else's house to play, you must play by their rules. Sometimes, those rules are very unfair. When you go into any auction house there are three sets of rules:
1. Allowed to register to bid.
2. Bidding rules.
3. Post winning bid rules.
A person should be aware of all the rules in advance and they should be followed at all times by all sides.
In this case, what matters is what was listed in writing for the auction. To tell you the truth, the $46 fee does not bother me for a coin over $1000. What bothers me, from what you wrote, is that they were not willing to let you authenticate the coin your way. I don't understand that. I don't know why they would have a problem with that. That strikes me as weird.
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Valued Member
United States
356 Posts |
Further clarfication, for poster JoeySanders627. From what I have been told, most major houses will accept returns, including Heritage, within a certain time frame. If the coin is later proven to be a fake, then obviously no time frame applies with any legitmate dealer. In this case, when doubts materialized I immediately contacted Heritage, and their liason was pleasant and concerned. I told him I was uncomfrotable and either wanted to return the coin, or have Sear authenticate it. He contacted me back and requested that I instead drop it off with him and he would let NGC review the coin. I suppose I could have refused, or just demanded a refund at that point. However, I truly did like the coin and was eager for it to be authenticated. I dropped the coin off immediately, making a special trip out to their Beverly Hills office. I was later dismayed when certain forum members pointed out that NGC does not authenticate, however I was assuaged somewhat when I was told Barry Murphy would be reviewing the coin.
Later when the coin was returned back to Heritage, I was given a generic e-mail showing the coin in a slab, something I did not want, and no added information, except a bill for $46. Heritage later disclosed that legally NGC can and will not authenticate ancient coins, nor provide any further details. Considering that this coin was casting a lot of shade for everyone I needed details and wanted them. Instead everyone at Heritage I spoke with seemed more intent on collecting the $46 then anything else, refusing to return coin until paid. This culminated in their President haranguing me on the phone, albeit he called back later to apologize.
In closing, I warned them that this would end in costing them more than $46. I always keep my word. My e-mail reverberated and already a client of mine is pulling his incredible collection of Provincials from Heritage and putting them with another vendor at a better rate, due to my intervention. That transaction would have brought in about $10,000 to Heritage.
Edited by caesar77
11/05/2016 2:28 pm
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Valued Member
United States
408 Posts |
Thank you for your comment caesar77. It clarified a lot of things for me. This is a case of misunderstandings. They should have given you a price beforehand. I agree. You could have decided at that point what other options you had. Quote:
He contacted me back and requested that I instead drop it off with him and he would let NGC review the coin. This is the more major misunderstanding. You were dropping off the coin for NGC to review it. They not only reviewed the coin, but graded it, and slabbed it. That is what NGC does. You probably should have told them that you just wanted it authenticated, but not slabbed. Based upon what you have stated, I don't find either party to really be at fault. Where Heritage, or more specifically Cristiano Bierrenbach, erred was his response to you about the fee. You being a regular buyer, he should have been much nicer and civil with you. I truly believe his attitude ticked you off and you had every right to feel that way. You are a regular customer. You are not some game player. I can tell from your posts that you are a serious and straightforward person. Reading your comments, I think you should have trusted your instincts. You should have gotten the coin to David Sear and let him authenticate it for you. His opinion would have had the most credibility with you and would have put your mind at ease one way or the other. Do I think you should do business with them in the future? I would not. If I have spent thousands of dollars with someone over multiple transactions, I would expect to be treated better. |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,212 |
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Posted 11/04/2016 5:42 pm
