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 Replies: 29 / Views: 8,748 |
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Valued Member
Australia
91 Posts |
I recently picked up a 2004 50c CofA pointy A on ebay and must say I know very little about it. I'm not sure if the head on the obverse is larger than the non-pointy variety, as it is on the 20c coin, but the A's certainly are pointy. I believe it was not issued for circulation but I'm wondering if anyone can offer any information on how this coin came about, its mintage, value etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
853 Posts |
I know the pointy A's had a larger head. I know both pointy and flat A's were found in mint sets in all combinations. As to what was in change I can not say.
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Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts |
Copied from Page 135 - Maccas Guide 14th Edition.
Obverse has large head type with legend text featuring pointed "A" of Australia as with other years. However this type is not found in any of the circulation issues of 2004. It is only found in Mint, Baby Mint, Wedding, Proof, Baby Proof and fine Sliver Proof Sets.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
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Valued Member
 Australia
91 Posts |
Thanks Bigfella and Nancy.  Any word on mintage figures or price in that Maccas Nancy? |
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Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts |
Nothing re mintage figures, only 2 prices listed: Spec $30, Proof $25.
It's possible Brissboy may be able to shed some light on mintage figures if he reads this.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
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New Member
Australia
42 Posts |
according to the maccas guide 2008
APPROXIMATELY400,000 large head when into circulation
This figure is not confirmed so be careful if selling
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Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts |
quote:
APPROXIMATELY 400,000 large head when into circulation
That circulation figure relates to the 20¢, not the 50¢. As far as I know, none of the 50¢ went into circulation. life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
Edited by Nevol
03/19/2008 4:44 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
91 Posts |
I sent this request off to the RAM to see if they could help with the mintage figures for the 'pointy A' 50c:
"I notice that there are two varieties of the 2004 50 cent coin with the coat of arms reverse. One has a larger effigy of the queen on the obverse with the A's in the word 'Australia' being pointed while the other has a smaller effigy with the A's having a flat top. I believe that the larger effigy variety was not issued for circulation and is only available in some mint sets. Are you able to tell me how many of the larger effigy, pointed A type 50c coins were produced?"
I'll post their reply here when I receive it.
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Valued Member
Australia
335 Posts |
I'm reading this now Nancy, hehe. Takes me a while to get around the various coin forums I am on.
The 2004 20 cents and 50 cents had both obverse varieties. As has been stated above the small effigy with the new text font (most noticable in having flat top A) was the dominate issue for 2004 being found in circulation, mint sets, baby mint sets, proof sets and baby proof sets and in the Fine Silver Sets.
The large effigy with the old text font (same as previous year and noticable in having pointed A) only appears in all the various sets as mentioned above plus the wedding sets and approx. 400,000 of the 20 cents were issued into circulation.
So the Pointed A large effigy variety of 50 cents can only be found in sets. It is unlikely the RAM will have a breakdown on the mintages for the variety in the sets. Early correspondence with the RAM gave some conflicting information to what was actually being found by collectors for the mint/proof sets.
The only rough mintage I have is for the Fine Silver Proof Sets where they can tell me totals of each coin variety but not how many actually went into sets. More coins than the 6,500 sets were struck and the excess after sets were compiled were melted down.
If you are interested in this, I can post mintages for you as a guide to maximum possible for each variety of 20c and 50c.
Wayne
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
I have been finding some of the CofA, 50cent which have varying degree's of doubling on the obverse, the first one I found it just looked a little off but as I have seen more and been looking there are some that are showing it quite badly even to the point of almost no hole in the middle of the letter A. Has ayone else noticed this, I will try and get a scan in the next couple of days showing a few different levels that I have found.
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Valued Member
Australia
335 Posts |
Joel, what year are you referring to? I am assuming you are talking about circulation coins and not these 2004 Pointed A 50 cent coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
839 Posts |
why would they make one with a small variation on purpose, but no circulate it?
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Valued Member
Australia
335 Posts |
The pointed A obverse die (master, working, whatever)was made first where say the 3 from 2003 was replaced with 4. As 2004 sets are produced from around August 2003 in preparation for launch and release in November 2003, this die would have been used for the intitial 20c and 50c coins for the Mint and Proof sets. So the first sets would have had all pointed A obverses.
At some stage new master dies needed to be prepared for the 20c and 50c and these were prepared by computer which used a different font set and saw the effigy reduced in size. It is possible the RAM were trialling this new computerised die engraving machinery.
The new dies were used for the production of the circulation coinage and for further production of mint and proof coins for sets. Thus sets were compiled from a mix of coins of both varieties from their stock pile giving rise to the various combinations of 20c and 50c found in the sets.
It would seem one circulation run/press used the older 2004 obverse for the 20c giving us around 400,000 coins. Another possibility could be that excess coins produced for mint sets were tossed into the circulation coin bins.
Why the different dies were used for the Fine Silver Proof Sets when there are only 6,500 sets, I have no idea. I guess the operators of the proof presses just picked out what proof dies were on the shelf and got both types for each coin by shear accident.
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Valued Member
Australia
335 Posts |
In 2007 we also see differences in the date fonts for the 20 cent coins issued into circulation. Whether the two varieties are also in mint or proof sets has not been noted at this stage. However here is the explaination from the RAM as to how the different dates occurred which may offer some explaination as to what would have taken place in 2004.
"The two 7 forms that you see result from a change in our processes in
applying date changes. The thick 7 was formed by our old-style process. This process depended on hand punching the 7 into a soft master die. The thin 7 comes from a change to a new process of machining tools from a digital file directly into the steel. We used a laser scan from the original year 2000 date change plaster, removed the terminal zero and added a digital 7 from the nearest match to the hand punched thick 7."
They also described other features between the two dies such as the relief of the effigy.
"You can see that the thick 7 effigy has a higher relief and from the mottling on the effigy that it has not been fully formed by a full contact under pressure with the die. On the thin 7 effigy, you will notice that the relief is lower and that the effigy is nicely formed. We have traced this to a new tool with reduced convexity. This change was made to reduce the coining load and improve die life.
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So you see the RAM is continually reviewing the dies they use to get the best results and life from them.
The 20 cents obverse was again changed in 2005 and again in 2006, both of which have the pointed A text but the text and date fonts are different if you look closely.
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New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
Hi,
I was referring to the 2001 Centenary of Federation sorry, on the obverse the Lettering of Australia. I have about 4 of these coins here with varying degree's of Doubling on the Word Australia and less noticeably around the effigy. The Worst of these has the A's in Australia almost filled in, Also looks to be slightly rotated to a small degree as the points of the imprint that create the rim do not really align to those of the edge of the coin, although I would assume for the 50cent there would be some margin of error here.
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Valued Member
Australia
91 Posts |
Quote:
"I notice that there are two varieties of the 2004 50 cent coin with the coat of arms reverse. One has a larger effigy of the queen on the obverse with the A's in the word 'Australia' being pointed while the other has a smaller effigy with the A's having a flat top. I believe that the larger effigy variety was not issued for circulation and is only available in some mint sets. Are you able to tell me how many of the larger effigy, pointed A type 50c coins were produced?"
I'll post their reply here when I receive it.
Well here's the reply from the RAM. It looks like they haven't got it 100% correct suggesting that all 2004 uncirculating mint sets only contain the "pointy A" fifty cent coin.
"Thank you for your email to the Royal Australian Mint.
The variation was a result of a technological transition from tools produced on a mechanical reduction machine to tools produced on a computerised engraving machine. The "A"s with a flat top were produced using the new computerised engraving process. All of the coins issued into circulation used the new technology, all uncirculated coins used the old technology and both technologies we used for proof coins in roughly equal proportions."
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Replies: 29 / Views: 8,748 |
Posted 03/17/2008 10:17 pm
