Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Counterstamped Vs. Counterstruck

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 12,044Next Topic  
Valued Member
houston_guy462004's Avatar
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2008  12:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add houston_guy462004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Can someone give a good definition and differentiation between a "counterstamped coin" and "counterstruck coin?" I know that a "counterstamp" was a punch mark used by governments to indicate legal tender status (as counterstamped Spanish dollars in England or by individuals as advertising, or as an engraving, or other purposes; however, I do not know of any examples of counterstruck coins or their purpose. Thank you.


Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2008  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never heard of the term counterstruck but I know what overstruck is. Overstrike is when almost all of the surface of the coin is restruck to another denomination such as this:

From this
Counterstamped-Vs.-Counterstruck

To this - note of the cross. Should be easier to identify I hope.
Counterstamped-Vs.-Counterstruck
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16829 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2008  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would've assumed "counterstruck" and "overstruck" to be synonyms.

Thus, a "counterstamped coin" has had a punch or small die applied to it, which hasn't obliterated the original design. A counterstamp can be either government authorised (such as various Caribbean colonial issues) or privately done (like the "Pears Soap" stamp often seen on French coins).

A "counterstruck coin" has been effectively treated as a blank, and the design of the original coin, known as the "undertype", has been almost completely erased by the new coin, or "overtype". Russian coppers like the one gxseries posted, Bank of England 1804 dollars, and Brazilian 960 reis are all known for counterstrikes, with undertypes often identifiable.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2008  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day,
Shorter Oxford Dictionary, 3rd revision of the 3rd edition, 1992, doesn't define any of these terms. I'll look up "The Big One" next time I'm in town.

CCF Glossary:
"counterstamp" is defined, as explained by SAP;
"counterstruck", "overstamp", and "overstruck" are not defined;
"restrike" is defined, but it is directed to a situation outside the present discussion.

I thought about the recycling of Spanish Dollars by the British, in 1797 & 1804, where both practices referred to above were employed. I had in mind, that some authoritative writer may have used specific words to describe the addition of a small mark to an existing coin (1797); and then used a different term to describe what happened in 1804 - as per SAP's post.
"The Coins of Great Britain" by Thorburn & Grueber, 4th edn 1905, pp 93 & 94: "[The Government] resorted to the extra-ordinary proceeding of issuing Spanish Dollars countermarked with the head of George III ... These counterstruck Dollars were to be current for 5s."
So, they use the terms synonymously. And their description of the 1804 BoE Dollars avoids both words.

Seaby's Standard Catalogue, 22nd edition 1987, p230: refers to the 1797 Dollars as "countermarked" (three times); and the 1804 Dollars as "re-struck" [sic].

I think the bottom line is that these words have not yet taken fixed meanings, and care ought to be exercised in using or interpreting them.

Peter in Oz

Valued Member
houston_guy462004's Avatar
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2008  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add houston_guy462004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have done a little more research on the terminology-

COUNTERSTAMP- an official punch mark to signify legal tender status of a foreign coin or change in value of a domestic coin [eg, Spanish dollars counterstamped with image of George III]

COUNTERMARK- private punch mark used as advertising or as a sort of merchant coupon to keep coinage in local circulation in times of coin shortages [eg, 18th century English silver]

OVERSTRIKE (COUNTERSTRIKE)- coin struck over an older and usually worn coin used as a planchet [eg, 1804 Bank of England 5-shilling piece struck on a Spanish dollar]

RESTRIKE- coin of an earlier date struck at a later date from the original dies [eg, Fugio cent restrike or Confederate half dollar restrike]

Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16829 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2008  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree with that, except that I would tend to use "counterstamp" and "countermark" interchangeably. I haven't heard of a strict separation stamp=government, mark=private.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Valued Member
houston_guy462004's Avatar
United States
235 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2008  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add houston_guy462004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check "The Encyclopedic Dictionary of Numismatics" by R. Doty. Also google "counterstamp" and "countermark".
  Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 12,044Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.24 seconds to rattle this change. Forums