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Looking For Some Hephthalite Help

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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/20/2016  8:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Having just gotten a new coin, I wanted to share it and also ask some questions. As you might guess, prior to creating this post, I spent some time looking through the CCF archives and this very good link previously provided by Bob:

http://grifterrec.rasmir.com/huns/huns4.html

It looks to me like it is a so-called "trident crown" type of Hephthalite drachma. By the color, it seems exceptionally debased, with very little silver at all. Anyway, here are my questions:

1. Can anyone confirm that the round countermark is the of the insect type?

2. There seems to be a second, more linear countermark below that first one. Any ideas on what that might be?

3.If I wanted to dig deeper, it seems that Gobl is the go-to author: Gobl, Robert. Dokumente Zur Geschichte Der Iranischen Hunnen In Baktrien Und Indien. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1967.

But this seems to have multiple volumes. Which volume is more appropriate to the White Huns? I don't mind buying books, but I'm trying to avoid having more books than coins...



Looking-For-Some-Hephthalite-Help

Looking-For-Some-Hephthalite-Help
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/20/2016  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Referred to as a beetle countermark on coin five here, Dave: https://www.beastcoins.com/Hephthal...thalites.htm

And six and seven here: http://www.anythinganywhere.com/com...ndi-heph.htm
Edited by Kamnaskires
12/20/2016 9:27 pm
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/20/2016  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thanks Bob--what do you think about that other countermark? Or is that more of a Ron question?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/20/2016  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure what you're referring to by a second countermark...I'm not seeing it. If you're referring to the raised shape at 3:00, I would think that's part of the obverse legend.
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 12/20/2016  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, I really don't know very much about this type other than what is available on the web. So I really can't add anything to what Bob has already said.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/21/2016  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ron, ok thanks anyway!

@bob, this is the region of interest that seems to have a horizontally-oriented linear countermark:



Looking-For-Some-Hephthalite-Help
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/21/2016  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is certainly not my area of expertise, Dave, but I do see on Tom Mallon's site (grifterrec, the huns4 page) that shoulders of the ruler were often depicted has horizontal...perhaps suggesting an outstretched arm? Could that be what you're seeing? Similar shoulders:


Looking-For-Some-Hephthalite-Help
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/21/2016  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok yes, very good point Bob. I bet that you are right about it being a shoulder or arm rather than a partial countermark. Thanks!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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