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 Replies: 42 / Views: 3,401 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
This one was in an old PCGS slab. Looks like a gen 4.1 label used between 2001-2004. I paid $189 for this coin, so some of you were spot on. Thinking of sending this one into CAC. Pictures got blurry when blown up.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/01/2017 9:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
Looks like I got it, LOL, Might be a good candidate for CAC
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
It would be awesome if I were to get my first gold bean.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
Gold bean would be if it were undergraded, I think it is spot on, so it would be a green bean
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I wasnt able to spot the wear. Where did you see it?
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
That coin was graded about 15 years ago, given the style of the slab label. I think that it would get a low Mint State grade today, but that's not to say that CAC will like it. It is more than likely that it has been dipped, and it's one of those where the dip worked pretty well.
I know what you mean about ugly trimes. The Type I trimes (1851-3) were 75% silver and 25% copper. That unusual alloy prompted some pieces to take on some ugly spots and toning, especially on some Mint State examples. You piece has nice color in that regard.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Received this in hand today and the high resolution photos show some extensive scratches. A little disappointed. Still like the coin. What do you think?   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4593 Posts |
Planchet scratches do not detract. There does seem to be the tiniest bit of wear on the diamond on the reverse and the shield edges at 10, 8 and 2. But those could also be strike weakness (planchet scratches make that more likely) - notice the fine details on the ends of the C still show clearly (those are almost fins and are the 1st thing that gets knocked down).
PIDT - Progressive Indirect Die Transfer - is the name for the design transfer. It's thought to happen as a kind of work hardening of the dies which were HORRIBLY overused.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I concur with above & with PCGS, die polishing lines & a nice AU58 coin, correctly graded IMO. It is solid in the grade and might CAC, and would be of greater value as such to everyman registry set collectors.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
What does the coin look like in hand? Are your photos or sellers photos a true representation of what the coin looks like in hand? I also bought a 1854 3 Cent XF 45 this week on ebay. The seller photos were so large and high res that the coin looked much worse than in hand. When I got the coin, I was very please as the coin has a lot of luster and the circulation scratches and die scratches shown in seller photos were not visible in hand. Edited by Slider23
01/03/2017 10:35 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
The curved scratches on the reverse are not die polish lines and will most likely keep the coin from getting a CAC sticker.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. In hand, the coin looks white and not golden. The coin is tiny, so no scratches are visible with the unaided eye, but are visible with the loupe. Thanks BStrauss3 for pointing out the three flat spots in the shield. I looked at those with my loupe at 15x and was able to see that the middle line running throughout the border of the shield was uninterrupted all the way around, even though I see the weakness or rub. I can see it clearly in the loupe, but it was much harder to photograph. I have two photos below, with light at different angles, and I don't think these show the line going all around, but much better than the photos above. Can't tell if it is rub or weakness. You guys really have eagle eyes...   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
The stuff under the III is very concerning. It looks like damage to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
I agree. The marks UNDER the "III" look like scratches that are into the coin. Die polish marks are RAISED ABOVE the surface of the coin. That criteria applied to the other lines that are on this piece. If the marks are into the surface they are post mint damage.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Don't know how many care other than me at this point, but I will beat this dead horse a little further. I am going to disagree with billjones and say that the scratches between the III and the crescent were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The reason why I believe this is because I examined the coin carefully under up to 20x magnification and I found the following: 1. There is about 2mm of space between the III and the crescent. 2. All of the scratches begin exactly at the crescent but never are on the crescent or the III. 3. The scratches are essentially hairlines that become invisible viewed at an angle. These scratches, although prominent at high magnification, are invisible to the naked eye (see picture of the reverse in the slab at the top of this page - you cannot see any trace of these scratches). 4. If the scratches occurred accidentally, it seems extremely unlikely that none of the scratches would appear on the devices. In fact most of the scratches originate exactly at the crescent. There is also a scratch above the crescent between the stars at the top of the first picture below. That seems to be an extension of one of the scratches below the crescent. But the crescent does not show any scratches at all. The crescent should have scratches if the scratches were post mint. 5. If the scratches were made intentionally by someone, beginning at the crescent, it would be extremely difficult to make intentional scratches less than 2mm long. Also, even with a pin it would be difficult to scratch that lightly, consistently as it appears in the coin. People intentionally defacing coins aren't exactly delicate about it. Remember that the scratches are invisible to the naked eye, so they are very subtle. As a result, I think it is more likely that the scratches were on the planchet when the coin was struck. Also the angled line in the middle of the crescent (see red arrow) is raised. It coincides exactly with the position of the star on the other side of the coin. Most of the star device transfer is dull and hazy consistent with transfer from the opposite side, but this part is sharp consistent with a clashed die... but only in this small section.    IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/05/2017 12:56 am
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Replies: 42 / Views: 3,401 |
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Posted 01/01/2017 10:25 pm
