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 Replies: 26 / Views: 1,901 |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
you guys are more knowledgeable than I @ these older $. What stands out to me was two of the stars in left field squished and others seem off. Is that normal for the old dies to be like that? Know there's a lot of mint errors etc. but...  Edited by Crazyb0
01/29/2017 11:48 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11917 Posts |
This is a PCGS AU55 slabbed 1798 bust $. You can see that the stars on the left obverse vary in shape even in higher grades. Strikes were uneven and the shapes of devices were not perfectly uniform in 18th century early coinage. Coins were not struck in collars and planchets were not uniform in thickness, weight and size. the coin in the 1st post of the thread was struck with a cracked late state die. Lots of variables in strike quality.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
when it comes to high dollar coins, I'll stick to slabbed coins only
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
 In a majority of instances there is a reason why a coin valued over $1000 isn't graded and authenticated by either PCGS or NGC. As the price goes up, it becomes even more suspicious that such a coin isn't TPG'ed. Yes, there are plenty of "new collections" that hit the market when dad or grandpa dies, but if they are of quality, the first advice most sellers will hear is get the better coins graded. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
I would buy only graded and slabbed coins on ebay. I even suspect my LCS when it comes to raw coins. You buy the raw coin from the dealer for $200 and when you want to trade it in on another coin he offers you $50 while pointing out all the flaws he glossed over when you bought it. I did buy an 1885CC GSA coin recently. I am getting really fed up with Morgans because to get the last 8-10 in decent condition you need to take out a mortgage on your house. I might just retreat to my LWH, SLQ, Mercury dimes and Buffalo nickels and concentrate on upgrading my sets. Quite a few of the sets I can cherry pick and just buy the key dates rather than spend $30,000 to finish Morgans. I agree with most here that buying ungraded and unslabbed coins off internet sites is a big gamble. When you buy second hand car do you go to the sleaziest "buy here, pay here" dealer in town? That to me are raw coins online or even from dealers. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11917 Posts |
I don't want to downplay the risk. I agree that as price goes up so does the risk. Having said that I think it is important to learn and to apply acquired authenticating and grading knowledge. All TPG coins were once raw. I think that there are times when relying on others is appropriate, but at the end of the day you have to rely on yourself. To develop that capability I believe that, when warranted, you should take risks and have plans to mitigate loses when you make a mistake. Will it hurt when you make a mistake and realize losses? Yes, absolutely. But I also believe that you will become crippled if you rely solely on others and do not develop the ability to make decisions on your own. This is just my humble opinion and I do not want to imply that my situation and thoughts apply equally to everyone else. For this particular coin I thought the low price and 14 day return privilege were sufficient mitigants for the risks that you had enumerated. It didn't eliminate all risk, but placed it at a reasonable level for me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. As always, it is very helpful. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/30/2017 1:32 pm
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Numismatic student, I do get that with the different dies etc, but there was still some "quality" to those old minted coins. Looking at your slab example, two points cause me to question authenticity of the raw, 1) the date: slabbed is spread out, 8 touching right bust, the rim/denticle's(?) are more even, reverse is way offset. Are these "mint errors"? The raw coin is looking a lot like my "really cool, important find) 1804...  BTW, after previous discussion, the word "copy" is now dremeled on reverse of a fair imitation cast copy! Edited by Crazyb0
01/30/2017 1:45 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11917 Posts |
There were many varieties of 1798 dollars and not all of them are documented. The coin in question does not look like a cast copy to me.
Site won't allow me to post the link but you can search for 1798 dollar varieties and see a sampling of major varieties. Not all are documented.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/30/2017 2:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4409 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11917 Posts |
Thanks Meadowview. According to the tool you provided this is the:
1798 Draped Bust/Heraldic Eagle Dollar
Pointed 9, normal date, separated from the bust
Arc Star Reverse
Four Berries in Olive Branch
Variety: BB-125, B-8, R-1
It even matches the die crack across the "C" in AMERICA.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Replies: 26 / Views: 1,901 |
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Posted 01/30/2017 12:13 am
