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Early England? Can You Read Which King?

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United States
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 Posted 02/11/2017  5:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Spott to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
19mm 1.4 grams

Early-England?-Can-You-Read-Which-King?

Early-England?-Can-You-Read-Which-King?

Thanks!

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TobyJ's Avatar
United Kingdom
1273 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2017  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TobyJ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like an Edward I LoNGCross Penny...
Edited by TobyJ
02/11/2017 5:36 pm
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34426 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2017  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@spott, yes one of the Edwards. I don't know enough to separate out Edward I from II from III though. @TobyJ, can you please share the design element(s) that mark this as the first?
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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TobyJ's Avatar
United Kingdom
1273 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2017  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TobyJ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I've got an old Edward I penny, and it looks like this one, and I've sold a few. I believe they are the most common of old hammered coins. It could be a Edward II, as I've read in my coin book 'The coinage of Edward II differs in only a very few minor details from that of Edward I and are of similar value for the common types.'

Here is one that sold on ebay. It looks the same.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1272-1307...047675.l2557

I'm interested to know now if it is Edward I or Edward II, or indeed even Edward III !

EDIT:

I found a very interesting website...

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/edward...ies%20P1.htm
Edited by TobyJ
02/11/2017 6:12 pm
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AnYangMan's Avatar
Netherlands
91 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2017  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AnYangMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I may be a little late to the party, but better late than never.

It is definitely an Edward the first Penny. I too am no expert on this series, but have picked up a few things here and there. The first thing to look for is the general layout of the legend. If it is an abbreviation of some sort of the legend "EDWARDUS REX ANGLIE DOMINUS HYBERNIE", you're looking at an Edward the First to an Edward the third (florin coinage) penny. Any later coinage by this monarch has an entirely different legend, and is thus easily recognisable. The next thing to look for is the general shape of the crown, whether it is bifoliate or trifoliate. Trifoliate always points to the early classes (1-9) issued by Edward the First, bifoliate means a late Edward 1st to Edward 3rd penny. In this case we have a trifoliate crown, which points to classes 1-9, and thus we can conclude that it was issued under Edward the First with certainty. Alternatively, we can look at how the name of the king is spelled. In this case only 'EDW', which can point to either class 1-9, or florin (third) coinage form Edward III. We can narrow it down even further, but we are now getting into an area where only true experts know everything. Looking at the shape of the crown, it is not a penny from class 1. The shape of the 'S', the so-called 'Non-composite' or 'thick-waist" S, excludes class 2, as well as the first half of class 3 (3A-3E). 4C, 4D and 4E can be written off because of a lack of pellets and due to a complete headband. The lack of anything on Edward's breast on this coin means that class 5 and 7 can be excluded as well. There is no contractive mark after the 'H' in 'HYB', so it isn't from class 8. And finally, the mintmark, in this case a fairly obvious cross potent, excludes classes 6 and 9. So we are left with; 3F, 3G, 4A and 4B. The difference between these sub-classes is very minimal, and I'm afraid I don't have the expertise yet to identify these correctly. I believe one should look at the shape of the bust and its crown, particularly at the way the ornaments in the crown are positioned relative to each other. I'll leave that to an expert.

This identification does give us a nice and limited date-range according to the site Toby already posted; the first coins in class 3 were minted in 1280 and class 4 was minted from 1282 to 1289. Sweet coin!

Mika

Ps. As said, I'm no expert. Feel free to correct me.
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34426 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2017  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, good information to have. I hope that I can remember to point folks to your post when this question comes up again Mika.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2017  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with AnYangMan, and would add Class 4B.
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atscaper's Avatar
Canada
89 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2017  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atscaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Minted in London. The other side reads "LON DON CIVI TAS"
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