Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Mystery From The 1913 Mint Director Report. Page 8

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 1,015Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2017  02:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In Fy 1913 the Mint at San Francisco conducted an audit which included the opening of vaults that had been sealed in 1883. They contained Morgan silver dollars minted in 1880,1881, and 1882. The bags were opened and 18 washers were found to have been substituted for Silver Dollars.

Now that is not really the mystery. The mystery is that the report quite clearly states that the "vaults believed to contain in the aggregate $61,395,000 in silver dollars".

Now this is waaaaay more than the total number of Morgan dollars minted at SF from the start of production.However, that is quite clearly the number given.

Anyone have any answers?
Edited by jmkendall
02/13/2017 03:11 am
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
spru's Avatar
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2017  02:37 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Now this is waaaaay more than the total number of Morgan dollars minted from the start of production.


Is it? Was it said that they were only S Mint coins or that definitively only those years were included?

Link?

Edit: I find it hard to believe that auditors searched over 61 million Morgan dollars to come to this conclusion (and 18 washers). Or is the $61.4M figure in today's value? If so, that would be under 4.5M Morgans.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
02/13/2017 02:53 am
Moderator
Learn More...
nss-52's Avatar
United States
54280 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2017  07:34 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, since, as you said, the SF mint made less than 61.3 million Morgan dollars in 1880-1882, it is obvious that the count was off (not likely), they were not just SF mint coins, or they were not just 1880-1882 dated coins.

The San Francisco Mint had vaults that served as depositories for a good portion of the country's silver (and gold until Ft. Knox opened).

Per my quick calculations just the SF mint made about 56 million Morgan silver dollars from 1878-1883. They made another 26.5 million Trade dollars from '73-78. Carson City mint made 6 million Morgan and 3 million Trade dollars in those same date ranges. The Philadelphia and New Orleans mints made many, many millions more. Tens of millions more were minted from 1883-1904.

Trade dollars and Morgan dollars were never popular coins and they were made because Congress dictated that they be made to placate their cronies in the silver business. That is why so many were stored in vaults for years and decades - no one really wanted them back then.


OR

Perhaps there were a LOT more washers in the unopened bags.
Edited by nss-52
02/13/2017 08:00 am
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2017  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And the mints DID ship dollars to some of the other mints. Within the passt two weeks I transcripted some documents from the national archive for Roger Burdette that describe the shipping of five million silver dollars from Carson City to San Francisco. Those documents were from 1899. but still it did happen. All depended on who had the storage space.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2017  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to the 1883 Mint directors report (page 10) there were 30,841,960 Silver dollars on hand at the SF Mint. Additionally 1,662,447 Silver dollars had been distributed at the SF at the SF mint. It does not say but is implied that this total are the amount of Silver dollar made under the 1878 act.

As a comparison the amount held at Philadelphia were 4,354,571 Silver dollars; at CC were 1,914,522 silver dollars, and at New Orleans were 6,193,537 Silver Dollars.

It is also stated that the demand in the Pacific states and territories is slight.

I thought that interesting as it has been stated over and over that Silver dollars circulated in the West and were not much in demand in the East. Yet is it seems that the mintage of Silver dollars at the Philadelphia mint were distributed almost as soon as they are minted. There is an implication in the Mint Directors Report that production was shifted to Philadelphia because the demand was greater in the East. Though it is admitted that a great many were held against certificates held by the treaury. Just shy of 40 million standard silver dollars being in circulation by the third quarter of 1883.
Moderator
Learn More...
nss-52's Avatar
United States
54280 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2017  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you tell us where you are reading the 1883 Mint Director's Report? Is it online?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
  Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 1,015Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.25 seconds to rattle this change. Forums