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Unhappy With NGC Photos And Grading

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Pillar of the Community

United States
521 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  12:49 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add johnny676767 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was unpleasantly surprised when I received a recent coin purchase. I checked the online listing photos against the photos on the NGC site while verifying the certification number.

Here's the link to the NGC cert lookup pictures:

https://www.NGCcoin.com/certlookup/564470003/

However, here is a link to more accurate photos in a post in the grading forum.

http://goccf.com/t/280823

I know there are variations in photography and grading, but this seems a bit extreme. I hope this example serves as a warning to anyone inclined to trust NGC grading or even their online photos.

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keepcalmandcoinon's Avatar
United States
865 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  02:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keepcalmandcoinon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not understanding the issue here. Did you buy the coin graded or did you send the coin in for grading?
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ErrorCoins222's Avatar
United States
1699 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  03:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ErrorCoins222 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm not understanding the issue here. Did you buy the coin graded or did you send the coin in for grading?


I think the OP was relying on the NGC photos to determine grade and surface conditions when buying, but was disappointed when the item was observed in person. Correct me if I'm wrong.

From my perspective, NGC photos are good for confirming that the coin in the holder is the exact coin that was sent in for grading. Without the photo, you can only confirm that the coin type/date/mm is the same. The photos also help detect tampering of the coin/slab after it leaves NGC.

It is also my understanding that the photos are incorporated with the price of submission. And, in order to be operationally efficient, the photo quality is sacrificed for speed.

Though this relates more to your other thread, I think that all the top TPGs would likely straight grade this. It's a market acceptable coin, IMO. There are far worse cleaned busties in NGC, PCGS, and ANACS straight graded holders.
Edited by ErrorCoins222
02/17/2017 03:46 am
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. At least NGC documents their coins. It's a nice straight grade coin in a top tier holder.
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United States
521 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny676767 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ErrorCoins222, you are correct. And thanks for the explanation. That explains the low quality photos.

I am surprised that there is agreement with the NGC grade, especially because almost everyone in the grading thread labeled this one as "details".
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've always felt that the photos on the certification verification site are more interested in showing the slab than the coin. But the full size images are usually good enough to confirm that the coin in hand is the same coin as in the slab and that is what is important to prevent buying counterfeit slabs.

Some day maybe PCGS will catch up with NGC in this regard.
Edited by Conder101
02/17/2017 12:36 pm
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Tbone's Avatar
United States
1839 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC images are done automatically at no extra cost to the submitter. They are primarily done to help prevent counterfeiting and thus they are done very quickly and do not attempt to accentuate the coins merits (or lack of). PCGS will take very professional images (TrueView) if you submit a coin to be graded under their "Secure" option. This option is only $5.00 more per coin using their economy service level, and only $2.00 more per coin using their regular service level. So it's well worth the money for very nice images when having coins graded by PCGS.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC also has a premium photography service, you can order a "Photo Proof" along with your certification services - https://www.NGCcoin.com/specialty-s...o-proof.aspx
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The NGC images have always been "Ordinary" But at least every single coin graded by NGC is imaged so that a buyer can at least verify the general condition the coin was in when graded.
This cannot be said for a PCGS graded coin because the majority of PCGS coins are not imaged at all.
Also prior to the inception of providing a "trueview" image with the "secure" submission option at PCGS the secure images were absolutely terrible and were Far worse than the NGC images which have always been Free.
Edited by trout1105
02/17/2017 7:19 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2017  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But at least every single coin graded by NGC is imaged

Every single one graded in the past 9 years. (They started just a few months after they confirmed what we were telling them about counterfeit NGC slabs.) Coins graded before then are not imaged. And NGC has been around for almost 30 years. But it is still a ton more images than from PCGS
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Andrew99's Avatar
United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2017  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the CCF members tend to "details" a coin more quickly than the market or any TPG would. Most Bust material has been lightly cleaned long ago. A TPG won't details it unless its a modern cleaning, or it was done very harshly.
Edited by Andrew99
02/21/2017 9:06 pm
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