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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,437 |
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
I bought this coin along with a bunch of others (8 ancient coins for a total of $20... ludicrously good bargain bin, really good choice, will definitely come again). I did identify/attribute most of the coins - Leo I, Aelia Flaccilla, Julia Mamaea provincial from Bostra, Antiochus VII, Aretas and Shuqailat. (It was a really good bin.) That leaves: a Constantinople mint decanummium (probably Justinian, might post later to be sure of the year); a Judean coin with the multi-line legend, which I will definitely post later (there are loads of similar varieties, but my Paleo-Hebrew sucks, and it's apparently double struck, which doesn't help) - and this very thick (and likely cast) copper. Sorry for the awful pics, smartphone camera, sorry. (Might try to use another smartphone later.)   AE23 (probably, largest diameter is actually 24 mm), ~13 grams (my makeshift scale sucks even more than my camera, but 13-14 grams looks right). I couldn't find any plausible Wildwinds match for the legend, but I'm not entirely sure of the legend, anyway. (It's a bit more visible in hand, but still uncertain.) As mentioned, probably cast (sprues, seam). The seller said "probably Bosporus", I personally suspect Sicily, but it could be anything really. (Well, anything that made cast copper of this size, anyway.) Any specific ideas? I'm really not sure what it could possibly be (everything I checked doesn't fit). |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I don't see any detail to tell what it might be. Maybe some with better eyesight than me can see something.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
I've seen similar flan extrusions on Ptolemaic, Seleucid, and Judaean bronzes, usually described as "flan handles"
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Pillar of the Community
 Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
Quote:
I've seen similar flan extrusions on Ptolemaic, Seleucid, and Judaean bronzes, usually described as "flan handles" They're pretty common on Pantikapaion coins too. Which is why I'm not that sure of the "cast" attribution (that and the relatively fine details). Could it have been that the flan was cast but the coin was struck? That could explain it - but of course makes the attribution in this particular case harder. |
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Moderator
United States
34428 Posts |
J1M, I guess that my eyes are as bad as Ron's. I cannot make out anything--maybe play with the lighting a little? This is the best that I can do with your current pic: Perhaps some interlinked Xs or spray of greenery along the right rim?  "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
No, it's a mix of several things - generally crappy smartphone camera, awful overhead lighting, the coin generally being pretty dark, and that bright spot near the center (it's really there - looks like the patina rubbed off in that one place) messing up the automatic calibration. I tried it with a different smartphone, which has a flashlight setting and a generally better camera; will try to post when the photos come through. Might also try photographing again in the morning (when there's ambient light from the window). Though yes, now that I think of it, that part near the right edge does look a bit like a branch with leaves. Does this help you in your search for the type? ...oh, here it is.  This should be better. (Much closer to actual colour, too, though the real thing is a little bit darker.) It's still darned blurry, but that shouldn't matter much in this condition, anyway. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
The most frustrating attribution challenges are those in which you sense that just a wee little bit more visible detailing would bring you considerably closer to a definitive ID. This is one of those. It's just too far gone, unless cleaning might reveal something more. Having said that - and since brainstorming is implicitly encouraged here - I'll add the following. I have absolutely no confidence in this thought, but as it was the first thing I thought of, I'll share it. My first instinct was that the large curved shape might be a double cornucopia and that the coin might be Judaean - although I suspect that instinct is probably wrong. However, here are interesting points: Weight and dimensions are spot on for an AE 8-prutah. So is the fabric. So is the planchet manufacturing method...exactly fits the technique you refer to in your question, J1M: Could it have been that the flan was cast but the coin was struck? Hendin's 1162 (Mattatayah Antigonus) features a double cornucopia that would be the same proportion in relation to the flan. The double cornucopia on these issues is often off-center, often pulling to the left as we see here. While the Paleo-Hebrew lettering of these is typically composed of straight lines, rather than the curvy shape I see to the right of the "cornucopia," I can imagine I see two conjoined letters, and a compelling little projection on the upper right of what would be part of the second letter in the sequence. And these two letters do appear, typically, in the 5:00 position, it seems. For comparison:  Having said all this, it's just speculation based on frustratingly few tangible hints. I'm fairly sure I'm wrong. But it's always fun playing detective. |
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
Wow Bob, amazing I don't know how you do it. Your comparison between the OP coin and the one you posted do appear to be very similar in what didn't look like any detail to my eyes.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
No, looks like it's a match! Thank you!
In hand the reverse match is much more obvious (the top of your pic corresponds to about 10:00 on my photo).
It's not the 5th century BC Sicily that I thought it was, but it's apparently a pretty cool coin anyway.
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Moderator
United States
34428 Posts |
Don't ever leave us Bob!  "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,437 |
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Posted 04/09/2017 5:07 pm
