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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,612 |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
64 Posts |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/27263286990...RK:MEBIDX:ITThis QII 1963 English shilling (unc) is on sale for the princely sum of $269.98 - a 30% REDUCTION from $299.98 - what a bargain! I admit it's got a bit of toning but for an uncirculated coin that on a good day with a force 10 gale behind it is worth £2 (Spink value) just where is the seller coming from? Am I missing something here - does this coin have some special value I am not aware of? Seriously, we see this time and time again on ebay with grossly inflated prices and, indeed, ridiculously inaccurate descriptions of condition often with the weak caveat that condition is 'subjective' - Except perhaps for hammered and ancients, I don't buy that because every serious collector has a good concept of the terms used for coin condition and for a start, everybody knows what a pristine unc coin looks like so there is a firm standard to base one's assessment of condition. Such flaws in the ebay market can only drive away potential new collectors because inflated prices make the hobby appear too expensive combined with the so-called 'AU', 'EF'., 'VF' descriptions that simply are not! Furthermore, dare I say it, most culprits appear to be in the US! Unfortunately it seems there's not much we can do about this. Frank  Edited by hibernianscribe
04/19/2017 03:40 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17949 Posts |
Quote:
Furthermore, dare I say it, most culprits appear to be in the US! There are quite a few in the UK as well, especially those offering recent commemorative 50p and £2 coins for ridiculous prices! Perhaps, in addition to our "Worst Coins on ebay" topic, we should have a "Most Ridiculously Overpriced Coins on ebay" topic? I remember 1963 English shillings being annoyingly plentiful in change right up to the introduction of the new small 5p in 1990, and in the 1970s it was still possible to find really nice examples when searching through £5 bags from the bank. Darn! I must have thrown away a fortune! Edited by NumisRob
04/19/2017 03:49 am
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Valued Member
 United Kingdom
64 Posts |
OK Rob, I stand corrected in that there are also quite a few culprits in UK. Regarding the US, I was thinking more of the inaccuracies of condition - there is a lot to be desired in this respect. Your suggestion about a thread for "the most ridiculously over-priced on ebay" is certainly a good one. Frank Edited by hibernianscribe
04/19/2017 06:01 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Quote:OK Rob, I stand corrected in that there are also quite a few culprits in UK. Regarding the US, I was thinking more of the inaccuracies of condition - there is a lot to be desired in this respect. Your suggestion about a thread for "the most ridiculously over-priced on ebay" is certainly a good one. Do keep in mind that British grading and U.S. grading is completely different... a gEF in British grading could well be an AU58-MS62 in American grading... A British EF is nowhere near an American EF... As far as the pricing, the market sets itself. Someone who has grossly inflated prices on all of their stuff simply won't do enough sales to stay in business... However, while certainly a useful tool, many times 'price guides' do not reflect the 'true' value of many coins: There are coins I could not make money on if I buy at 20% of 'book' value, while there are others I would gladly purchase at 2 to 3 times the book value... |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24163 Posts |
hibernianscribe, do you want ebay telling you how much you're allowed to ask for things? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
After reading the original post, I am not sure this seller is out of line at all. If you look at the entire run of his Listings, he sells spectacular Toned coins in slabs or Key Date pieces.
This 1963 Shilling has a wow factor and I am sure that it will sell for a decent price. Coins that have the " LOOK" usually find a home. As JDMern stated above there are coins and then there are COINS.
Recently when I was at the Midland Coin Fair in Birmingham a similar Toned EIIR Half Crown , ungraded sold to a very knowledgeable British Dealer for north of 100 pounds. The piece was spectacular. Of course the same coin in pedestrian condition was available in pick boxes at a pound or so!
There is an old adage in the coin business......."Never Criticize until you actually Realize !"
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
Coins that look this nice will sell at anything less than $100. Above that it may take some time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Not when I see what "monster" Morgans sell for. I always say don't overpay for color. Its a $10 coin to me, but I will never own it.
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
Sellers set the prices they want for coins - not ebay. Buyers decide if they will pay the price asked - not ebay. It is pretty simple. I understand your complaint though. I have seen many of items on ebay that I wanted but the seller was asking a ridiculous price. I didn't get upset, just moved on. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2637 Posts |
I think it was Robert Heinlein who wrote: "One man's meat is another man's poisson."
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2490 Posts |
With regard to the shilling that started this thread, I would be astonished if the toning could be proven to be natural.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
64 Posts |
Well, quite a few varied responses. I go with alganbagerap in that such toning appears suspect - I've never tried it but I understand that enclosing a coin with hard-boiled egg can produce toning and a good hot blast with a blow torch might also have a similar effect in causing visual oxidation! Regarding Pacificoin's adage "Never Criticize until you actually Realize !" - in sixty-odd years of collecting I've never heard that before but on reading it now, I wholeheartedly agree, and that is exactly what I have done regarding this overpriced, exceedingly common coin, whether "toned" or not, I realised its asking price was exceptionally excessive and I criticised - end of story! Regarding me wishing that ebay tell sellers how much to charge as bobby131313 asks, no of course not - as I said in my original post, "Unfortunately it seems there's not much we can do about this". Such things are flaws in online auctions that we must put up with. The fact that they do undermine the hobby that we all love is regrettable and I feel wholly justified in venting my irritation although perhaps my post merited just one or two red 'frownies' and not three, since I have moved on from this and have lost no sleep over it. Frank Edited by hibernianscribe
04/24/2017 02:17 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
If it was questionable Toning it certainly would not be in an NGC MS66 Star holder. The reality is it is an exceptionally Eye appealing coin to a lot of people including the grading service. Comes down to a willing seller meeting a willing buyer.
The person selling the coin can ask whatever they want .if they get it that is another story.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
A couple of thoughts... Quote:
I've never tried it but I understand that enclosing a coin with hard-boiled egg can produce toning and a good hot blast with a blow torch might also have a similar effect in causing visual oxidation! I absolutely agree with NGC in this being original toning... My guess would be this coin spent many years in some sort of felt lined presentation box... Coins that have been altered to produce artificial toning do not look anything like this, and most are quite obvious... There are several sites which show studies in color progression in regards to toning, and these are well worth looking into... Quote:
Such things are flaws in online auctions that we must put up with. The fact that they do undermine the hobby that we all love is regrettable You assert this as a 'Fact' but is simply is not. Anyone is certainly justified in having an opinion on what they find ascetically pleasing, or what they find interesting. Just because it is your opinion that find the market for toners to be high, does not even remotely correlate to 'undermining the hobby we all love'. Believe me, there are many segments of the numismatic hobby I have no interest in, nor can I really understand the appeal of, but the last thing I would argue is that these segments are undermining the hobby; I would actually argue quite the opposite, that a healthy hobby is diverse in scope! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2843 Posts |
 with jdmern. I find that coin very appealing, and it is fairly unique. The owner is willing to part with it for stated price, and if someone wants to own it, they will have to pay that price. That, I believe, is what establishes the value of all coins in the market. including a 1793 chain cent in MS66. This does not undermine the hobby, it supplements it and complements it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
Just because it is in an NGC holder doesn't mean that it is what it says on the tin either Pacificoin, there is a flip side to every argument. The true reality is that you seem to think that an NGC MS66 Star Holder means something to people who don't care about TPG's. I am not having a dig Pacificoin, just being honest. If you trust them that's your choice but the vast majority this side of the pond don't and the first thing we would do is open it up to inspect the coin, therefore rendering the grading and encapsulation pointless. TPG's are a blood sucking entity that is to the detriment of the collecting world, I criticize them because I have realized that they have no purpose in the numismatic world. The main factor here though is what is being sold, a low value coin in the UK that may not be readily available in the USA which has now been graded and encapsulated by some TPG company and now has a fantastical price. Another story of " buy the coin, not the holder " in this case you can save yourself over £200  Don't know who said it but " a fool and his money are easily parted " seems quite appropriate. |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
64 Posts |
Quote:
TPG's are a blood sucking entity that is to the detriment of the collecting world, I criticize them because I have realized that they have no purpose in the numismatic world. I thoroughly agree tenbobbit (in my opinion, that is)! Quote:
I absolutely agree with NGC in this being original toning...
If I was to make such a sweeping statement I would wish to have examined the item in my hand first! Quote:
You assert this as a 'Fact' but is simply is not. My friend, you missed my point made in my original posting - I was not singling out overpriced 'toners' as undermining the hobby but rather the practice of overpricing generally and inaccurate descriptions of condition - that is the 'fact' regarding this issue - and yes, this is my opinion that is just as valuable to me as the opinion of those that like 'toners' as you put it - every man to his own! Edited by hibernianscribe
04/24/2017 12:19 pm
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,612 |
Posted 04/19/2017 04:15 am
