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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,246 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11896 Posts |
The main classic coin forum has examples of counterfeit, misgraded and deceptive offers for coins. Some of these are entertaining, shocking and somewhat informative. Thinking that we could have one thread to collectively point to examples of grading abuses and point out issues we see narrowly focused on grading. I will get the ball rolling with a coin seller that apparently has redefined the VERY FINE grade category. Flipping through his inventory this seller appears to overgrade very highly damaged coins. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-s-50C-...AOSwrhBZChZMIN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/06/2017 7:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1000 Posts |
What's the point, though? Individual ebay sellers cannot be held to any standard, and we'd be hard pressed to find any semblance of accountability. I would understand this type of thread for coins in TPG slabs. If it's to serve as a warning against purchasing from a particular seller, there's a thread for that here: http://goccf.com/t/2392 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
complete waste of time to go after seller description's.. you could do that all day long.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11896 Posts |
I see value in seeing what we all see, even if something can't be done immediately about it. The classic coin grading section is about learning after all, not necessarily correcting misgrading. Your mileage may vary. The title aptly describes what the thread is for.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/06/2017 9:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
I don't see anything wrong with the idea. The way I see it, if you don't think it is a good idea, don't post. There are a lot of individual threads mentioning specific listings that are grossly graded.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1000 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Lesson here.
This is why we should all learn to grade accurately for ourselves, especially if you are buying.
I usually ignore TPGrader's assessments and make and accept my own mistakes.
You lean to how the grade THEN!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11896 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2362 Posts |
I'm trying to be open minded about this idea but it's not working for me. If we all participated this thread could produce a thousand posts a day about coins where some ebay idiot seller thinks a coin with a hole drilled in it is a proof. Quote: I would understand this type of thread for coins in TPG slabs. I'm with Druu on this one. Grading flaws would be interesting if made by the TPGs. Quote:
if you don't think it is a good idea, don't post. OK, I won't post. Member ANA and EAC "You got to lose to know how to win". Dream On by Aerosmith |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11896 Posts |
You are always welcome if you change your mind.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I have purchased several coins from Vette1986, of which I have had the majority graded by NGC, and all have come back problem-free except for a single 1937 Walking Liberty half dollar which was sold as AU and came back AU Details-Cleaning, although I cannot see any evidence of cleaning in the fields or otherwise except perhaps that it was dipped and retoned. I bought a 1867 Two Cent advertised as XF with lots of cool die cracks and chips, it came back as AU50. A Three Cent Silver came back as XF45. A 1854 SLQ /arrows came back as VF25. Just saying, let's not blanket all sellers with "all of X's coins are Y" here. Another thing to remember is that grading is subjective to a point. Just because you don't think a coin is XF doesn't mean that I don't think it's XF. I might be at XF45 on one raw coin which a seller has listed as AU53, or listed as VF35, does that make me wrong, or the seller? Who's to say? I would like to see a thread such as this for TPG coins from the Big 3 (ANACS/NGC/PCGS) but even such a thread could be filled to twenty pages in a week or less given the combination of both subjective grading and market grading. I may not agree with PCGS that a coin is XF45, if I have it at AU50 or XF40, or even AU55 or VF35, does that make it "grading abuse?" Another thought is that this might work better if broken down into specific series of Classic Coins which tend to be reliably more difficult to grade; experts or collectors of those series could then chime in with examples ( TPG and otherwise) of coins that are incorrectly graded, and also provide education in the form of analytical evidence (e.g. lowest hair curl is not defined, LIBERTY incomplete) that will help new collectors of that coin series in building "quality" cabinets. Rick Snow has been doing this with Indian Head cents for the last several years, and by reading his articles I have learned a ton about how to correctly grade IHC's & FE's vs. the TPGs and raw coins, which has enabled me to make wiser choices about what goes into my cabinet. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1000 Posts |
Edited by Druu
05/08/2017 01:51 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I'm sure he does sell garbage, but then again, most of the sellers on ebay sell garbage. I just don't think this needs to turn into a callout thread, there's already a Bad Sellers thread elsewhere. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1000 Posts |
Yes, precisely my initial objection to this thread. My intent wasn't to single out a particular seller. I only came across him when cherrypicking -- I found a coin that was clearly not uncirculated, and the ccf folks also detailed it for a cleaning. I went back to that post to copy the listing for this thread, and I thought it prudent to mention why the coin was over graded.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,246 |
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Posted 05/06/2017 9:18 pm
