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 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,334 |
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
Hello, I am not a coin collector but my dad happens to own a particular coin or medal which we fail to identify. We are both curious. We did not find anything like it in catalogues. A friend said that such coins are identified by weight and dimensions but not even that helped. I am posting an image of both sides here so that maybe someone can help. Image:  crestSide.jpg64.97 KB Image: FaceSide.jpg56.33 KB Edited by Sap
04/27/2008 08:48 am
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
  Looks like an Austrian Thaler KM#2162 - 1819M F - $45 I think this is it and it's an M mintmark...but not sure Edited by GO
04/22/2008 12:45 pm
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New Member
 Malta
9 Posts |
But this one weighs 20 grams and has a diameter of 4cm - which does not tally with that of a thaler!
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
Please do explain what the following text in your reply means:
KM#2162 - 1819M
F - $45
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
Thaler - 28.06g
Yours could be a counterfeit. I don't think that amount of wear could be 8 grams. I'm lookin forward to some others inputs
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KM# - is a catalog number found in Krause Standard Catalog of World Coins
F - is the grade of Fine. It's the lowest grade attributed to this particular KM# to kinda give it an estimated value.
1819M - looks like an M mintmark on the obverse under the bust
Edited by GO
04/22/2008 12:39 pm
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
Thanks a lot. I must also point out that the coin does not seem to be made of silver as a thaler should. Correct me if I am wrong. I only know some things cos I have been asking around a lot - and finally found your forum. I hope that someone will come up with a definite reply. BTW its date 1819 - forgot to add that - but I think you can still make out the date from the scans.
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
Stick around a bit. There are lots of other members that know a Lot more then I do when it comes to identification and authentication. I'll shoot em an e-mail to this thread
Welcome to the Forum!
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
At 20 grams the weight is off my 8 grams, so based on that I also think this is a forgery.
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
Is there a way to conclude if its a counterfeit for certain apart from the weight?
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
You would have to compare it to a known real coin of the same type date and mint.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
plectrum - Hello and welcome. I collect counterfeit world crowns and have done so for about 50 years. My specialty are Mexican 8Rs but I do like the Austrian Talers. I have a couple dozen different varieties of the Maria Theresa - I have always loved the eagle on that coin.
Based on the weight and diameter you provide, I have no doubt that what you have is a counterfeit. A typical silver crown can only lose about 4 grams in weight before it can no longer be identified and yours is far from that point. At 8 grams underweight the coin would be absolutely SMOOTH.
From the pictures, the coin appears to be a casting made from a transfer set of molds. Based on a diameter of 40 mm and a weight of 20 grams I would guess it is cast zinc or pot metal. That is provided it is about the right thickness. Of course the thickness is easy to change and by varying the thickness it could be made of nearly any metal.
If the coin is zinc it will feel "greasy" when you touch it. Lead and pewter varieties have a similar greasy feel but would be heavier.
Does it have any ring at all? Cast brass and bronze will ring well, but the coin would be a bit thinner than normal to get your weight.
Have you looked at the edge of the coin? What does it look like? Are there any designs? Can you see seams?
The reason I am asking so many questions is because there are many ways to counterfeit a coin. There are also wide variations in the value of counterfeit coins based on when and how they were made.
Please let me know and we can go from there.
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
I do know that the edge is decorated with sort of squarish perforations. With "the edge" I mean if u look at narrow side of the coin.
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New Member
Malta
9 Posts |
swamperbob is it possible to tell me the coin's value? I mean what would a collector like you pay for it? I still have no idea of what metal it's made of because its too dark - and cleaning it means ruining it no?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
First do not clean the coin. That would damage it.
The edge description "decorated with sort of squarish perforations" is not correct as far as I know. Does anyone know when Austria stopped using a three part collar die for striking Thalers?
Regarding value - personally I try never to exceed $15 US for Modern Counterfeits (made for collectors not to circulate). The circulating counterfeits vary from $15 up with many worth hundreds of dollars.
Without more data, I simply can not be sure of what you have.
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Moderator
Australia
16816 Posts |
I have an 1819A thaler:   Mine's fairly worn, and there's not too much left of the edge, but from what's left it seems to be a decorated and lettered edge similar to the IUSTITIA E CLEMENTIA inscription you can find on Maria Theresa thalers. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,334 |
Posted 04/22/2008 12:32 pm
