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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,794 |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Hi Coin Community, I am a moderator over at /r/coins and posted a question about an odd 8 Reales I purchased recently. A user FondlesTheClown suggested I join this community to seek out the sage advice of an 8 Reales expert: swamperbob . I bought this 1802-Mo 8 Reales from a collection of other 8 Reales. All the other are real and nothing much of note...but this 1802 is interesting. It has an assay mark of TH...a mark that is common in other years...but I can find no record on Numisma, NGC, or PCGS about an 1802-Mo TH 8 Reales known to exist. FT and FT/M are the only options I can find for 1802 (TH assay mark does exists in 1803). So, my question...is it a rare/unknown variety...or is it a very well made fake. Both me and my LCS think it is real...but looking for an expert out there that can help me. Here is what I know.  Had the correct diameter: 39-40mm Weights in perfectly: 26.76g Has the correct edge design: see image Made of silver Bottom section of the obverse seems to have some planchet lamination issues. The reverse of the coin has a few planchet issues too...but this is not uncommon for this era's coinage. In the correct "metal" style - in terms of obverse/reverse orientation. The coin looks like it may have been underwater at some point, but the centers actually have some luster left. I would love to know your thoughts - and if you have a great reference for Mexican 8 Reales. Thanks, Senator32        |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
I vote counterfeit. Do not like the look of the TH, do not like the dentils along the right side of the obverse, they appear to stop short of the edge and there appears to be a raised rim there. (Could be the photo, I do not usually make judgment based on a photo, I like to handle the coin) Note on the image below, even when the coin is slightly off center and the dentils are cut off on one side, they extend all the way to the edge on the other side with no appearance of a raised rim.  |
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New Member
 United States
21 Posts |
I am tending toward this conclusion as well, but I will say that if it is a counterfeit is a darn good one. I have about 30 other Pillar 8 Reales (some certified, some raw) and this one did not look out of place among them. Thanks for your feedback - looking forward to what others think as well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Senator32
Please post some more of your 8 reales, we can never see too many. When you say "pillar 8 reales" are you referring to portrait 8s like the one you posted or true Pillars (1732-1771). I would enjoy seeing them, as I am sure many others here would as well. We welcome Spanish Colonial collectors with open arms and have many spirited discussions on this forum.
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
The coin in question is a modern fake. It's very much of the fabric (note denticles, weird peripheral chemical toning, overall "soft" relief, etc.) of pieces that were popping up a lot several years back... appearances have cooled, but often come from more "legitimate" secondary sources as pieces get passed around like this did to you. Chinese in origin... many different dates/reverses are linked through varying die pairings - and there are indeed several impossible date/assayer combos that resulted. I have photos of a lot of these type pieces, saved as I see them... Was surprised I had no pic of this exact die pairing - but I do have a montage pic of multiple examples of an 1807 with this exact TH reverse (compare closely and you'll see several markers that conclusively match).   Edited by realeswatcher
06/29/2017 03:22 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
...from a collection of other 8 Reales. All the other are real and nothing much of note... Um... you sure about that? Consider that the only thing, seemingly, that caught your eye about this piece is that it's an impossible date/assayer combo... when in fact there are some signs here that should jump out as "curious" even if one isn't specifically versed in these. |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Thanks RealesWatcher! I agree, the reverse on your examples is exactly as it is on my 1802...so 100% a fake. Thanks for the confirmation. As to the other 8 Reales, I am confident those are real. This one had a host of issues that threw up red flags...the TH assay mark was just the final straw that made me want to seek out more experienced advice. Thanks again for the photo evidence! Happy to have found this community!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
I saw this as well. Clearly a book I need to get :)
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,794 |
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Posted 06/28/2017 11:06 am
