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Computer Build For Coin Photograph Editing

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 Posted 07/23/2017  07:54 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In this forum and others, I have found a paucity of information in regards to computers for photo editing. So, this post is to share key points of my experiences in building a computer with coin photography in mind. Old hands at PC building may find this boring but for me it was a major learning experience.
At the beginning of last year, I retired my old PC. It was old and was really struggling with some of the tasks I was asking of it. I had wanted to use Capture one pro for editing RAW photo files but, the minimum system requirements exceeded those of the PC. The PC was so old it wasn't realistic to upgrade it.

I replaced the PC with a Laptop. The laptop met the minimum requirements for capture one pro which were; quad core CPU and 8GB Ram. I was then able to use Capture one pro. Unfortunately, I soon found the lap top wasn't up to the task. The problem was due to the file size of each Raw image produced by my main camera. The laptop just didn't have the processing and, more importantly, cooling power required. Using Capture one saw extremely slow processing times (when exporting from Raw to Tiff) and thermal shut down of the lap top. For stacking it was taking between 30min and an hour to process 200 individual shots. Sometimes, in the middle of a stack, the laptop would reboot due to thermal overload.

I could have made do by purchasing a cooling pad for the laptop. I discounted that as being a short-term solution, particularly as the slow processing speeds were irritating me.

Some might think going back to JPEGs would suffice, I say that as a few years ago I would have been one of those people. It had taken me a while to understand the importance of capturing images in Raw format. To produce JPEGs in the camera the Raw files are "developed" in the camera. This means that processing is limited by what the manufacturer is able to stuff into the particular picture- making-machine you own. If you skip the in-camera processing you can use much more powerful applications with a more powerful computer, than that installed in the camera. The usual result is better final images (dependent on skill).

By mid-2016 I decided I needed a new PC. I could have gone out and just purchased one but I have never assembled a PC before so I decided This was my opportunity to do so. For Apple fans I decided on PC simply because I didn't want to pay, as some people term it, the apple-tax. Building my own was not the cheapest option, as I got carried away. It took me a good part of a year to save and accumulate the components for the build.

The good thing about building my own is that I was forced to think seriously about what I needed and wanted in a final machine. It was only when I started thinking about what I wanted that I discovered there were so many possibilities, and YouTube became my guide. the following clip, although old, gave me the model for my PC:

WbsyglPqK6o


The only major difference with my final build and the system shown in the above clip is my PC has an M.2(NVMe) 256 GB Boot drive (holds the OS and Apps), a 500 GB working drive (SSD) and a raid 10 array for long term storage.

For those who know as much as I did (zilch) when I started this project: Raid stands for Random Array of inexpensive disks. Raid 10 is a format which is raid one in combination with Raid zero.
Raid zero sees two hard drives (or 4,6, 8 etc. Drives) combined to produce one drive. When data is written to that combined drive half the data goes to one disk the other half to the second. This theoretically doubles read and write speeds. The disadvantage is lose one disk and you lose all the data. Raid 1 is data mirroring. The data is saved to both disks so that if one disk fails you do not lose the data. Raid 10 requires a minimum of four disks. The four disks are configured so that there are two raid zero drives, with one raid zero drive mirroring the other. This enables fast read and write speeds while ensuring data backup. Some say you can lose up to two disks in a raid 10 however as my understanding goes; two disks failing in the wrong positions can see all the data lost. So, I personally think that this set up only protects against the failure of one component drive. My raid 10 drive is made up of four 4 TB HDDs. This gives a total of just over 7 TB of long term storage (the theory says I should get 8TB).

In working out which components I would get I relied on the following (as well as downloading the user manuals from the manufacturers web site) YouTube channels( Edit I had used links to the channels but that didn't work so I have provided links to clips with in those channels. those clips are not necessarily the ones I relied on):

HWLAY_kJU_Y


LbpqkiaO7q4


For Old-pharts build advice I found this channel invaluable (although I still don't have a leaf blower):

Zz9pMKy9Mbs


Capture one pro had shown its self to be the most demanding App, processing wise, I would use so I contacted phase one and asked some general questions about processor (particularly core count) and graphics card requirements. The answer I got back could be summed up as: "the more you put in the better". When I installed Capture one and used it the first time it became clear this was practical advice, as the first thing capture one did on initializing was scan the PC and then it optimized its-self for the hardware it detected.

For those who want to know the key components I used here is the list. {Yes, it seems like overkill but I thought long and hard about each purchase and my aim was to have a machine that would last the life of a hard drive before requiring an upgrade I also put a priority on a reasonable degree of future proofing. I expect in five years the only component's I will recycle will be the case and the PSU.}

Thermal take core 51 a mid-sized tower
Asus Strix X99 gaming mother board
I76900K CPU
64GB Ram
ASUS Strix RX 480 gaming 8 GB OC (factory overclocked model) I ended up with the OC model because it was a few Euros cheaper than the non-OC model.
EVGA 1000W P2 Power supply.

I could just not bring myself to install water cooling (mixing water and electronics just did not sit well with me) so I stuck to a tower cooler ( noctua NH D15S) and fans(7 case fans)

I never planned to overclock the machine but after becoming familiar with UEFI(BIOS)I discovered it had a factory setting for overclocking the CPU I was using. So now the CPU is set to 4500Ghz. Overclocking the ram was even easier. I just activated the XMP switch on the motherboard and the Ram now has a mild overclock of 2400Ghz. I left the graphics card at stock speed.

The machine has been running a few months now and I am really pleased with it. Batch processing a set of photographs in Capture one pro sees exports to Tiff (of 200 photographs) taking about 12 minutes (previously it used to take a good part of an hour). Stacking is now very fast with a stack of 200 photographs averaging around 10 minutes (faster if I don't have any other applications running)

Now the point of the post, the lessons learned.

With this PC build I set myself a challenge and allowed it to get a little out of hand. I applied my coin collecting principles to component buying. Specifically, buy the best you can afford and if it's just out of reach wait and save. This saw me buying components over time. This was not necessarily a good idea. I was a little annoyed with myself when Ryzen was announced, as at that time I was already committed by my motherboard purchase to an I7 or Xeon CPU. I could have gone with Ryzen and got a much cheaper 8 core CPU, even though the ryzen CPUs seem to have issues with being overclocked beyond 4000Ghz (that would not have been a big deal)

Initially I did have issues with temperature (with both Capture one and Zerene stacker). I had the PC shut down due to thermal overloading twice. The tower cooler had only one cooling fan, but with the facility to add a second. I added a second and have never had a repeat. The CPU under-load has not gone above 60 degrees C since adding the second CPU fan. The lesson here is I should have been braver and gone for water cooling. More than likely at stock speeds the single tower-cooler fan would have been OK.

There were two problems with the PC case I purchased: No PSU (Power supply unit) shroud and only two external 5.25 inch drive bays. The PSU shroud is a nice to have. I ended up finding one from a different Thermaltake case and with some minor modifications fitted it to mine. What this enabled me to do was get all the cables out of the way of the internal airflow. The shroud wasn't necessary but it did make life easier when it came to cable management. So the lesson here is look for a case that has either a separate PSU compartment or a PSU shroud (it's cheaper than adding one later) The drive bays were more serious issue. It seems today the fashion is for minimal (often "no") external drive bays. That may be fine for gamers' but I don't think it suits photographers. After buying the case I worked out I wanted a hard drive hot swap dock, an optical drive, and a card reader. That required 3 external bays my case had two. The solution, in my case, was this product:

http://www.istarusa.com/istarusa/pr....WXRnbumxUuU

There are similar products from other manufacturers (such as silver stone) but this is the one I ended up with. I had initially wanted a dual hot swap dock that would allow me to use either 3.5 inch or 2.5-inch hard drives. However, having used the computer for a number of months the 2.5-inch size is perfectly adequate. I use the hot swap dock for backing up the computer ( once every two weeks) . The great thing is when I have competed the backup. I remove the hard drive from the hot swap dock. The recent events with ransomware confirmed to me this was a good idea (just for peace of mind). Lesson learned: I would suggest to any one building their PC to look for a PC case that comes with a Hot swap dock, the extra expenditure on the case would be, IMHO, well worth it and probably cheaper than going for the option I ended up with.

Some may be asking why bother with an optical drive. That was my initial view point. However, watching the YouTube channels I realized that when you build a PC yourself an internal Optical drive is worthwhile. It doesn't cost much and when you are installing drivers having it is better than not. I discounted an external Optical drive. My computer desk is small, and I am not particularly tidy. Having an external plug drive would just create more clutter, and more likely than not one day I would decide to store it in the basement and then forget where I put it (for me this principle applies also to other plug-in peripherals); it's happened before with other equipment.
For me the most important internal peripheral was a card reader. I used this product as I had purchased it for my old PC and never installed it. The reason being my old PCs motherboard did not have the necessary USB 3 socket.
http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?...el=AK-ICR-17

I am sure with some thinking, DSLR users will conclude; "why bother just tether your camera to the computer". Indeed, tethering is the best option for DSLR users. For majority of mirrorless users tethering (when possible) provides no real advantage and in many respects, it's a disadvantage or at the very least an unnecessary complication. To explain; when the first mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras came out, the major criticism was with the resolution of the rear monitor. DSLRs have optical view finders and the quality of those optical view finders made focusing very easy in comparison to those first mirrorless offerings. Mirrorless camera manufacturers responded to that very accurate initial criticism by increasing the resolution of the rear monitor, and when added, Electronic view finders. As a result, to match the resolution of my Sony A7rII and Olympus OMD-EM10II I would require an 8k monitor. Furthermore, all the focusing aids available to DSLR users (when using tethering) are built into the majority of Mirrorless cameras (such as magnifying the image). In discussions with other Mirrorless users I find most, like me, find the work flow is simpler to just transfer the files to the computer via the SD card. Even Wi fi or NFC transfer (both standard with most Mirrorless offering's) is slow. For that reason, a USB 3 card reader is a must. I had one issue with the card reader I use. If you look at the picture (in the last link) the right-hand USB 3 port is supported by a single external USB cable. When I contacted Akasa they told me the best solution was to route that cable through the PC case take it out of the case via a PCIe slot and plug it into an empty USB 3 port at the back of the computer. I really didn't like that solution, particularly when I ran out of spare USB 3 ports at the back of the machine. So, I had to buy two PCIe: cards that added in extra USB 3 internal ports. One was used for the Akasa port and the other served the two USB3 ports that are on the combination optical drive/hot swap dock.

I don't need, and never wanted, all the front USB ports (3 USB 2 and 6 USB 3) I ended up with, but it just annoyed me to have it non-functioning ports on the front of the computer. The lesson here, in relation to the card reader, was to shop around and get one that did plug into the mother board fully.

One simple addition to my machine was extremely worthwhile. The mother board has a DirectX jumper pins. Some PC cases (not mine: yes another lesson) have a DirectX button that can be connected to those jumper pins. I took the old power switch housing from my old PC and fitted it to the rear of my PC case. I installed a new micro switch to that housing and connected to the Direct X jumper pins. To enter UEFI-Bios I just activate that rear power switch. It makes getting to the Bios much simpler and faster. It cost very little to do.

I had one sobering lesson when putting the machine together. While wearing an anti- static bracelet I picked up the Graphic's card and a spark leapt between me and the heat sink on that card. I was amazed when I turned the machine on and found there was nothing wrong with the card. About an hour later my wife asked me if I had heard the thunder!! I had been concentrating so hard I hadn't heard it. The reason for the spark: my antic static band had been connected to a steel cable which in turn was connected to the radiator pipes of our central heating system. (if I ever do this again I will check the weather forecast!) I was very lucky!

The single greatest improvement to my photo editing (and picture taking) is not included in what has already been written. After constructing this project, I upgraded to a 4K monitor and that single purchase did more for my coin photography than anything else I did with this PC build. Finally, I could see my pictures and compare them accurately with coin pictures others had posted on the web. It was sobering to see what I thought were great photos (of my own and others) were not so great.
Edited by austrokiwi
07/23/2017 08:55 am
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 Posted 07/23/2017  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. About 90% of what you wrote flew over my head. But I respect your achievement and am sure it works great. Thanks for taking the time to lay this knowledge on us.

As an aside, my nephew (computer nerd) built a high-powered system a year ago and was also having cooling issues. His low tech solution was to buy one of the inexpensive electronically cooled "dorm fridges", install cable ports and ha keeps his system inside of the fridge! Crazy, but he says it seems to work pretty well
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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 Posted 07/23/2017  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Justinokay to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice essay explain the process. I give you an A+ for having some visuals.
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 Posted 07/23/2017  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coconutjoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's incredible that you have built a computer of this caliber as your first PC. A huge kudos to you for the achievement.

I used to run fairly busy computer retail shop, custom building dozens of desktops a month. They were mostly for graphic intensive games and designers.

I used to tell my techs that heat is your number one enemy in a PC, and you seemed to handle that pretty well. I like to correlate "heat in a PC" as "light" in photography.


Few comments.....

Your decision of RAID-10 was a good choice and well-thought-of, although bit more expensive route. In case of a drive failure, restore is much smoother than RAID-5 or 6 and will be behind-the-scene.

As your computer age, you should consider upgrading graphic card and drives.

Graphic cards are advancing at a tremendous pace. A part that cost $500 today will be $150 a year later with same performance, so I would shop not the most expensive, but 2nd or 3rd in line, since those seem to have best performance/price ratio.

About SSD drive, you should eventually use them for data portion as the price drops continuously. (SSD or Solid State Drive, which is hard drive made with memory with no moving parts and can be 5X-10X faster than ordinary spin drives)

I compare going from spin drive to SSD drive as going from LP to CD in music. I was blown away when I heard CD for the first time, and likewise for SSD when I received my first 16GB SSD drive. No moving parts, no noise, 1/50 of power used, less prone to damage, 5X+ faster, and smaller. No brainer here. I just love them.

I had fun reading your post, reminded me of those hectic days working with computers. And finally congrats again on your feat!


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 Posted 07/23/2017  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
austrokiwi totally excellent. very well done . I have learned that even my computer. gets a workout with zerene stacker. austrokiwi your spark moment you are a very lucky person. I have worked electricity all my life. I have seen what 138,000 volts can do to a person body. that would only be a fraction of the amount of energy in a lighting strike. thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge. it is alway greatly appreciated. have a great one.
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 Posted 07/23/2017  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add qxy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like a good setup you have. My current system is six years old, but still performing better than many new laptops you buy nowadays, due to building a high-end setup at the time. From my experience I'd expect that (assuming no hardware malfunction) you should be able to at least use this system for six years without feeling the need for major upgrades.
My own system was designed as a trading system, but is also quite capable for photo editing (the requirement for those two are not too far apart). I've got a SSD drive as main drive, and two HDDs in RAID1 for backup. However, drive space has kept increasing, and the backup drives got too small, so for backup I now use a NAS with 4x4TB drives in RAID10. I don't have a hot swap drive, but instead I backup once a week to an external HDD that I unplug once the backup is done (for exactly the reason you mention: ransomware would also affect the backup on the NAS). Those have been the only things I felt needed an upgrade in those years, so I'd guess you'll get many years of excellent performance out of your system!
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 Posted 07/23/2017  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought my main computer 15 years ago for $158 out the door. Only a year to go and I have it for $10 a year!

Seriously, I need a new machine. My pre-teen grandson was over the other day and said, "You're still using Windows XP?" Well, yeah. XP still works good, it's all the unsupported browsers and apps that are dealing the death blow.

Anyway, I have an i4 computer in the closet I am going to try. What's funny, is that I was thinking of using my old Compaq Presario for photography. I have two of these machines, is a low-brow photography set-up wise to try with these platforms?

I'm cheap.
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 Posted 07/23/2017  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now, what is your backup plan?

if you answer "RAID 10", I will slap you silly. RAID is a storage choice NOT a backup plan.

The fallacy that "a second drive won't fail" is only valid if they are truly independent. They aren't. You are much more likely to suffer a second drive failure during the rebuild after the 1st failure than any other time. And RAID 10 will not always survive two drive failures...

Do lookup 3-2-1 backup.

Thanks!
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 07/23/2017  6:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will respond to other peoples posts tomorrow, but I can't ignore Bstrauss3's comment. Bstrauss3 I suggest you read my post more thoroughly. Clearly you skimmed it, and just assumed I was making a mistake. I made it clear how I back up my system(fortnightly) in the start of this thread.

To make it clear I use a 2.5 inch hard drive hot swap dock. that enables me to use a hard drive in a manner similar to a USB memory stick. I back up the C drive using Acroynis true image and I duplicate the other drives to separate hard drives. Once I have made the back ups I remove the back up drives from the hot swap dock and store them in anti static hard drive containers (A single container holds four 2.5 inch drives). I am well aware that with a raid 10 drive( consisting of four HDDs) and 2 Solid state drives that I have increased my chances of experiencing a drive failure 6 fold. I do not back up to a cloud storage as I do not trust cloud storage providers.

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 Posted 07/23/2017  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually didn't read, I skimmed - you've got me there - tl;dr.


However, that's not a valid backup strategy, please do look into 3-2-1 - you need an offsite backup, regardless of whether it's cloud or just a drive at a (remote) friend's house you periodically swap. How often and how remote that friend is is question of your comfort. I sort of think if your house and town is a smoking radioactive crater and you are dead, you really don't care about the backup. But if it's a wildfire, you might.


Second point, with SSDs, the chance of random failures may be lower, however the planned obsolescence WILL hit all at once. And even with rotating media, the "MTBF" quotes for drives is only valid within their (planned | warranted) life span. So it might be 10M hours, but after 3 years, all bets are off (that 10M hour number means that if you have a cohort of 1100 drives spinning for a year, you'll put 10M hours on the clocks and should expect 1 failure. And 1 the next year and 1 the 3rd year. 4th year - all bets are off...

Years ago I worked for a company that had about 100 offices and used a hub & spoke distributed email system. If you did the math, we did about one life-time of run time per month across all the offices and we saw about one drive failure a month (You would get a message telling you that if you sent email to such-and-such an office between this and that, please resend as it may have been lost).

After three years, those very expensive drives hit their life span and the # of drive failures rocketed up to 3x month almost instantly... Taught me to read the story behind the numbers...

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 07/26/2017  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Reply

Quote:
As an aside, my nephew (computer nerd) built a high-powered system a year ago and was also having cooling issues. His low tech solution was to buy one of the inexpensive electronically cooled "dorm fridges", install cable ports and ha keeps his system inside of the fridge! Crazy, but he says it seems to work pretty well


Bump11. IN my younger years my immediate reaction would be "how are we going to keep the beer cool". In regards to the "techno speak". I guess it rubs off. I do think some computer IT experts rely on techo speak to keep us shelling money out to them. Once of the important things I gained from this project was the understanding of building the PC so that it matched its intended purpose. IN the past I would just go to a computer shop tell them I wanted a PC they would ask me what I wanted it for tell me what they thought I would need. As soon as they told me the price I would invariably pare back the specs to what I thought was a more affordable level. Carey Holzman ( third Youtube insert) made a point that really hit home; that being people should not buy the cheapest computer available but rather the best they can afford for their purpose. He expanded that point by commenting that time and time again people would come in with one or two-year-old machines that were already past their use by date, simply because of the cheap components installed within. He went on to say a more expensive machine will likely last its owner a good 3-5 years without issue. IN my case the Laptop was not fit for purpose within a couple of months. The machine This thread is about should meet my purposes, baring component failure, for five years (I am unlikely to buy another camera, which drove the processing requirements, in that time) despite it probably being outdated in 6 months' time.

It's the same as buying a camera for coin photography. the more you understand your needs the more likely it is you will get a camera that suits your purpose (rather than being told the standard Buy a DSLR and a 100 mm macro lens).

Coconut Joe: Now looking at what I have it does seem incredible. I didn't start out planning such a monster machine. It ended up that way due to a lot of consideration, and mind changing. Mostly It was meeting the requirements for Capture one Pro. As I understand it Lightroom generally copes with a CPU with a small number of Cores. Phase one (the developers of Capture one pro) make medium format cameras. So their software is designed to cope with large mega pixel images. I initially only planned for a 6 core CPU but I kept on returning to that decision. A few years ago, Phase one said you only needed a dual core CPU, then with their next iteration it was 4 cores so I would anticipate in about 18months they will be requiring 6 cores. Phase one's cameras cost around US$50,000 (and higher) so their customers are not scared of being required to have an expensive computer, and they expect high quality processing tools. So in the end I decided it was worth saving for three extra months to get the 8 core. The Ram was a slightly different decision but, with the same principles. The motherboard has 8 Ram sockets (Dimms) and could handle a maximum of 128Gb. The Motherboard manual stated that if all 8 Dimms were filled I would need extra cooling for the ram. So I decided I would only fill 4 Dimms. That brought the maximum down to 64GB, I contemplated just 32MB (twice what phase one told me was the preferred amount). I decided on going for the maximum simple because I knew in a years' time I would want to upgrade to the full amount, and buying a matched set of ram now was simpler (although not cheap). The worst thing about making such a powerful machine my first build was that I was on my own. If I paid for a shop to make it I would have some warranty protection. The lack of such protection (other than that from the manufacturers) made me very cautious with the build. I was paranoid about static and it took nearly 45 minutes of double checking before I installed the CPU. I was similarly cautious with every component I installed.

QXY: thanks for the reassurance. You have clearly understood my approach. Build it right once! Now I can go back to spending on coins!

Parklane.: I was where you are at. I can understand why so many people stick with XP. The later iterations from Microsoft have become tools to milk more money out of their customers. I actually conceived this build as ending up a with a Linux Operating system (I really hate Windows behind the scenes customer manipulation). The issue I ran into was that Capture one pro only works with Windows 10 or the competing Apple operating system. I did look at finding out if I could create a Windows 10 environment in Linux; I can't. So I am a very reluctant windows 10 pro user. I "had" to go for a hi-performance machine (not as High as I ended up) due to the size of the photograph files I was dealing with. With a cheaper Camera and more basic software (Like Light room) I could have gone for a much more basic system. I do wonder if there is a a suggested spend ratio between a Camera and computer?

BStrauss3: With my coin collection, I have it split between two Safety deposit boxes in different countries. I don't tolerate too much risk. I had planned the build with regularly backing up in mind. I even seriously toyed with getting a tape drive as secondary back up system. The problem I ran into was all I could find was doubtful second-hand options. I had never heard of the 3-2-1 system. For others 3= make three copies (using a variety of storage media) 2 = 2 copies are stored locally, 1- 1 copy is stored off site. Funnily enough I checked my current back up situation. For my Crucial documents, I have more than three copies and one copy is actually in my safety deposit box. One of my most immediate concern's is the backup of the C drive. Its on a M.2 Drive. An M.2 drive, for whose unfamiliar is a new form of Solid state drive. It is the same dimensions as a stick of Gum. Its very expensive per unit of storage but has extremely high read speeds which allow for very fast booting. I gained the impression that more than likely, for me, this drive will be the first to fail. I not sure if this is a good idea but my plan was to buy a second M.2 drive in October and clone the current M.2 drive on to it. and then put that drive in my closest safety deposit box (which is in a small town outside of Vienna). I do store some information in cloud storage but it is info I am not worried about losing. I also plan to replace two of the HDDs in my Raid 10 drive mid next year. simply to ensure the HDDs are not all of the same age( this was always in my plans.










Edited by austrokiwi
07/26/2017 11:11 am
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 Posted 07/26/2017  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A:

Good point to call out the difference between DATA backup and SYSTEM backups. Reminds me that I need to do a full backup of my firewall system...

3-2-1 (or 3+) is a great way to handle the DATA side. It gives you fast fix for the "Oh, <bleep>, I really didn't mean to delete THAT file" and also protection against bigger problems.

For SYSTEM backup, cloning the boot drive and keeping it offsite is a good plan. Obviously it's a PITA to update frequently, so if you ever have to use it there will be a time delay to retrieve the backup, and large update task to apply all the changes made in say six months. Just make sure it really can be booted before you take it off site. I've had to deal with both having to reapply several years worth of patches AND the unbootable backup (and was really, really happy I knew where the notebook I had used while setting up the system was).

I've also seen people do a P2V (Physical to Virtual) Virtual Machine copy as the backup - that way you can restore to any hardware supporting your hypervisor.

Basically when it comes to data protection, apply Firestone's Law of Forecasting: "Chicken Little only has to be right once".
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2017  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My Z87/Haswell desktop computer is about 4 years old, so I've been looking at building a replacement. The new case, PSU, and fans+filters are already complete, but there's no electronics yet. The 2 8TB bulk storage disks (only 1 year old) and the graphics card from my current desktop will be reused in the new computer.

My first plan was to go with Z270/Kaby Lake this summer, but there's not much real advantage over the old Haswell CPU (other than NVMe boot drives and 64GB memory).

So, I waited for the X299/Skylake-X to come out. On paper it sounded promising, but it turns out that Intel requires water cooling even at stock voltages and clock speeds. The 140W TDP is apparently really 300+ watts, under conditions of maximum load (Prime95 with worst case sizes and SIMD/AVX-256/512 options selected). This causes severe overheating of both the CPU and the VRMs on many of the current motherboards, and subsequent throttling to avoid damage.

So, I'm now starting to look at Z370/Z390/Coffee Lake. TDP is supposed to be 95W -- given that this is a mainstream (non-HEDT) CPU, I just hope that air cooling is acceptable with stock speeds and voltages.
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Canada
2784 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2017  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AK thank you for the information. I want to build my own computer. the computer I have is 3 years old. at that time it was consided one of the best. I would like to build my own computer. I wont be in a hurry. but I know I will need help. first purchase
1. Thermaltake Core V51 Window SPCC E-ATX Mid Tower Computer Chassis CA-1C6-00M-1WN-00. I can buy this tower for 117.00 Canadian free shipping.
2. PowerColor Radeon R9 295x2 Water Cooled 1500.00 Canadian
. any thoughts greatly appreciated. if you would change some thing could you explain. I know this would help myself and others
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austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2017  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rocky although I went with the Thermaltake V 51 Case I am not sure its the best for the purpose. I wish I had spent a little extra on the case... more than likely it would have seen me spend less on "work around" options As I noted at the start of the thread... there were somethings I didn't like about it. They were : only 2 external 5.25 bays. For my purposes 3 bays would have been better. Also There are other tower models that include HDD hot swap docks. Now you may not want a hot swap dock... and this is where making recommendations for a computer system is very hard. It all depends on what you want and how you will use the system. I found as soon as I purchased a significant component my subsequent component choices became narrowed. This is highlighted by your graphics card choice. Its an older card and is very expensive. The radiator will fit in the V51 case but there may well be a much better case option. I think other could comment but you might want to do more research and look at more recent Graphics cards. They may well have more efficient less power hungry GPU's and associated cooling. I believe you also use Capture one pro. that application needs at least 2 GB of Ram( the card you are looking at has 4)

Edit: on computer cases. I wish I had purchased a case with similar features to this one. I looked at this one but its design was too gaming oriented for me. It has very good front I/O connectivity. It has the hot swap dock I would have preferred and placed where I would have liked it.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-...ltake+chaser
Edited by austrokiwi
08/06/2017 4:00 pm
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Ham1947's Avatar
United States
1298 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ham1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure Thermaltake is a very good product. I have built a few computers, and used Antec cases for my computer builds. Great product. Check it out at: http://www.antec.com/index.php?page=cookieSet
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