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Fun With Variety Collecting...

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United States
157 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2005  11:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ziggy29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently resurrected my old Seated dime collection, and I've been researching some of the varieties therein. One of the most prized varieties is the so-called "no arrows" 1874 dime (designated Fortin-106 and Greer-102). Actually, the arrows on this variety are very faint; it appears the dies were polished enough -- or the die filled enough -- that the arrows are barely visible. This variety is believed by Seated dime specialists to be at least R7.

Well, fast forward to last night's Teletrade auction. I saw a peculiar 1874 dime, one I'd never seen before and one not listed as a variety -- an 1874 dime with one bold arrow and one almost invisible arrow.

Intrigued, I compared the position of the date and the arrows to a plate coin of the F-106/G-102 variety. To my surprise, the match appeared to be exact -- except for the bold left arrow, this coin's date and arrow positions, as well as the areas of the date that are bold and weak, appear to be identical to the 'no arrow' variety of 1874 dime! Keeping the discovery to myself until the auction ended, I was able to cherrypick this one.

What does this finding imply? I'm not sure yet. I've shown the picture to specialists and there seems to be agreement that this coin appears to have been struck from the same die and that no other listed variety, apart from the very rare F-106 variety, used this obverse die. So was the left arrow originally strong and then polished away (or filled by grease and junk)? Or was the left arrow repunched later, after a few true F-106 coins were produced? How many of this "one arrow" variety actually exist, and indeed, is this truly a new variety or just a different die state of F-106?

This is something that I'll be investigating and discussing with series specialists in the weeks to come, I'm sure. This may be the most exciting "find" I've ever made...so far. Here's the coin; note that on a traditional F-106, the left arrow is also nearly invisible, but the coin is otherwise seemingly identical to it:

Fun-With-Variety-Collecting...
Edited by ziggy29
12/16/2005 11:28 am
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Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2005  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Graet story! Please keep us posted. Thanks, Mike
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2005  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't wait to hear what you find out with this one! What a find!
Valued Member
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2005  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Susanlynn9

I can't wait to hear what you find out with this one! What a find!
I'll keep y'all posted.

Here's some information about the 1874 die varieties; F-106 is the very rare one that is "missing" both arrows. If you look at the date and arrow positioning on F-106 (click on the link for variety 106), you'll see a match; the only difference seems to be that the left arrow is fully struck up on my coin:

http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/...avarpage.htm
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Susanlynn9's Avatar
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 Posted 12/16/2005  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It sure looks like a match to me.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2005  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ziggy

It could just be the pics, but the date on your coin does not appear to slant upward from left to right as the characteristics of the variety shows as an attribute.

Rick
Valued Member
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2005  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
It could just be the pics, but the date on your coin does not appear to slant upward from left to right as the characteristics of the variety shows as an attribute.
The slant is very slight on the plate coin for F-106. Also the coin is skewed by a small number of degrees. When I manipulated the image at home to perfectly upright it, the slant was very slight, but upward.

[Edit to add: Here's the same coin with the image blown up and rotated counter-clockwise 2 degrees:]

Fun-With-Variety-Collecting...
Edited by ziggy29
12/17/2005 11:13 am
Valued Member
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2005  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Got the coin today. After examining it with a 16x loupe recently " inherited" from my late father, there is NO question that this coin was, in fact, struck from the F-106 obverse die. I was hoping to see other things on the obverse (such as die cracks or die erosion) to clue me in as to whether this was struck before or after the left arrow was obscured...but nothing.

There is some reverse doubling on the left side of the wreath and three small die cracks; the reverse die in F-106 is listed as "perfect" so this is presumably a different reverse. I'm examining known reverses from roughly the 1872-75 era to see if this is a match with any of them.

Don't be surprised if this is eventually listed as a "discovery coin" for a new variety.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2005  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Ziggy

Keep us up to speed !!! I certianly hope for you that it turns out exactly that way !!!

Rick
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