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Possibly Copper Coin Found In France | Liard, Late 1600's

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Australia
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 Posted 04/29/2008  07:44 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rickibarnes to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi everyone!

I am trying to work out what this coin is. I found it in the Auvergne region in France when I was a kid.

It is quite worn and thin, and is missing bits from around the edge. It seems quite light but this could be because of the missing bits. It is faintly brown under greensih discolouration, so I'm thinking maybe it is copper?

On the obverse it has lettering in three rows, which I have always taken to say "MARK DE FRANCE", but really the only letters that can definitely be read are:
AR (top row)
DE (middle row)
NCE (bottom row)

You can see that there are other letters but they are all obscured to some degree.

Immediately underneath the last row is a symbol that could be an O or could just be a circle, and there are also two fleurs-de-lis laid out underneath, in such a way that it looks like there may be a third one mirroring the rightmost, but if so then this too is obscured.

On the reverse, there is something in the middle that resembles a head, but it is too difficult to make out. There is also writing along the edge, not all of which can be seen, but it is possible to make out the letters "FREIDE". There's no date that can be seen.

If anyone can tell me what this coin is, I'd be very interested to know! I have pondered about it on and off since I found it . . . which is 15 years ago now! Probably time I made a concerted effort to track it down :P

Thanks in advance for any identification or suggestions as to how I could track it down.

Image: Possibly-Copper-Coin-Found-In-France-|-Liard,-Late-1600's obverse.jpg
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Image: Possibly-Copper-Coin-Found-In-France-|-Liard,-Late-1600's reverse.jpg
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Edited by Sap
05/01/2008 09:02 am
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Australia
16837 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2008  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse inscription actually says "LIARD DE FRANCE" - "liard" is the name of the denomination, which is a copper coin from the 1600's and early 1700's. The "O" beneath that is indeed a letter "O", surrounded by three fleur-de-lys (heraldic lily flowers) and is the mintmark; "O" stands for the town of Riom, which is indeed in the Auvergne region of central France (it was the provincial capital) and is actually one of the scarcer mints.

The obverse legend should read, in total, "L.XIIII.ROY.DE.FR.ET.DE.NA" and then four numbers for the date. There aren't too many options for the date: 1693, 1695, 1698 and 1699 are the only dates that I can see for this denomination and mint listed in the catalogues. I can't be sure from your pics, but I think the last number in the date is an "8". Listed in the Krause world coin catalogue as KM# 284.12.

The worst condition listed in the catalogue is "very good", valued at $10 to $20, depending on the date, though being a ground find with perhaps an illegible date, yours will be even worse condition than this.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Australia
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 Posted 04/29/2008  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Forgot to add: there aren't very many examples of liards on CoinArchives to show you what a decent one looks like, but I did find this bulk lot which includes two liards with different dates and mintmarks.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2008  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day,
I think it's a Liard, a pre-revolutionary denomination
Go to the 'bay, and look at Item number: 180236418807 - very similar, so far as I can tell, to yours.
Peter in Oz
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