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Replies: 24 / Views: 5,797 |
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Valued Member
United States
65 Posts |
Hi there, I have been dabbling in acquiring silver, and now gold for when I croak, and my estate (tiny) passes on to my older niece. I have a limited income right now, so I really need advice on what I should be looking at when it comes to gold and silver bullion coins/bars/rounds. Right now I only have four coins. I have a Australian silver Lunar coin, a Kookaburra silver coin, a small 1/10 ounce silver round. I just purchased a 1/10 ounce gold American Eagle, something I have wanted for quite some time. I finally took the plunge a couple of days ago. I also do a bit of dry washing gold mining here in the desert. Have managed to acquire about six grams of gold over the years. I do know that the purity is probably somewhere between 80 and 90 percent. What I wish is some basic advice on what to invest in. I have tried very hard to find things that don't have huge premiums, and what I mean by that is avoiding silver with premiums over three or so dollars over spot, and wish to keep the premium down on gold bullion also. The American Eagle is unfortunately sky high on premium, but I just wanted a gold coin. I also collect US Large Cents, of which I try very hard to make sure they are high quality. I have talked with my niece to advise her of what I am doing, and told her not to garage sale things. Anyway, I hope someone can direct me to something that does not carry the high premiums. If you wonder why I am doing this, I am getting old, and want to have something that has a little value to pass on to my niece. I have avoided things like life insurance and stocks simply because they are so poor investments. Half the time insurance does not pay out, and stocks can be gone in 60 seconds with the way the stock market is. Gold, silver, Gems and rare coins are pretty sure bets to at least provide some value.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: The American Eagle is unfortunately sky high on premium, but I just wanted a gold coin. The premium comes down when you buy larger sizes for the gold ones. The 1/10th have the highest premiums and the 1 oz the lowest. Quote: I have avoided things like life insurance and stocks simply because they are so poor investments. Stocks are a far better investment than metals. They have outperformed metals by massive amounts and some payout dividends for owning them. Metals have had two big spikes in an expected lifetime and both times they fell a lot afterwards.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
I dont consider gold and silver investments. They are but carriers of wealth. A silver 1964 quarter bought a gallon of gas in '64. It will buy a gallon of gas today, but first traded for fiat, or paper money. I've never expected to sell metals for gain, but they are a container of wealth.
If you are buying fractionals, you are paying mucho on premiums.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors... Roll hunting since '77 Dirt fishing since '72
Edited by fistfulladirt 10/04/2017 9:19 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
You might wish to consider "junk" silver coins. You get coins you can still collect, you pay closer to melt, they are easy to sell.
I recommend local coin shops if you have any near to avoid postage costs.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
Hate to break you the bad news- silver has been a HORRIBLE investment the past few years, only a 4% return when you can do way more than that in the stock market. Gold is ho-hum. If you had picked palladium, then you would be up 34% on the year, not bad, but not as great as the stock market.
IF you not put any sort of money in the market, especially after Nov 16, you have squandered the opportunity to leave money for your niece.
Forget about stacking and buy some boring stock like ExxonMobile that has been around since the beginning of time, pays a stable, steady yield
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Valued Member
 United States
65 Posts |
The reason why I do not like stocks is what I have experienced. Back in the 90's and again in the 2000's I got a bad feeling about my stock investments. Since I did not have a lot of money to invest, I decided to take the 10 percent loss, and turn it into cash. In both cases, just weeks after I liquidated my stock holdings, the markets nosedived badly. In both instances we went into a recession, and in the case of the 2000's, we called it the "Great Recession". In both instanced, if I had not gotten out, since my investments were so small, I would have lost much more than 10 percent. I tend to follow my feelings, that little something that is telling me something, thank goodness.
I agree fractional gold and silver are both not good investments. In the case of the fractional silver coin, it was a local coin shop purchase, which was really a way of saying thank you to the dealer for taking the time to consult with me. The 1/10 Gold Eagle is just a whim, so I could have a gold coin.
All I can do is try to find sales for both gold and silver. So far, I haven't seen anything of late where silver is less than a dollar over spot per ounce. It seems that just a few years ago, you could purchase silver with very little added to spot. Gold was not quite that way, but now the asking prices are significantly more inflated than a few years ago. I guess everyone is trying to make as much profit as quickly as they can. Sound familiar? Remember just before 2010 that was happening in all aspects of commodities and stocks, then the rug got pulled out from under everyone, and those small investors ended up losing almost everything.
So, it sounds like the best way to invest with precious metals is to save your money, and purchase larger quantities at one time to lessen the amount of premium charged. Meanwhile, I will continue to purchase my early American copper coins. Though the prices have been static of late, there hasn't been any loss, especially in the higher grades, and those coins that have a higher rarity.
Thanks for your replies
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: In both instances we went into a recession, and in the case of the 2000's, we called it the "Great Recession". In both instanced, if I had not gotten out, since my investments were so small, I would have lost much more than 10 percent. You would have at the time, but with the majority of stocks they have not only recovered to their previous levels but they have increased in value as well. Many of the losses people realized during those times would have not occurred if they didn't panic sell. Obviously some companies did need to be sold and weren't going to recover, but many stocks were artificially low from the panic selling.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
YEs, believe ir not, but anyone who held on from the COMPQ, or Nasdaq as its known, after 16 years, has been made WHOLE and then some.
I see this all the time in the public, they get burned repeatedly and give up, get scared and then the market takes off without them. By the time they catch on, then they get burned again as they buy at the top and sell at the low.
It is possible to be successful in markets, its not a dream.
the EASIEST thing to do would be buy some ETF that manages the stocks and includes stocks with very long history of secure dividend payments and just buy regularly.
when markets fall around 20-30%, then you double how much you usually buy. Then you sit and wait. You may not experience massive returns such as getting 60, 180, 200% over say a year or 6 months but at LEAST you will be net positive over time AND enjoy a steady dividend payment.
by using an ETF like that, the custodians and the issuer will be buying those superior stocks that have stood the test of time. sure they go down but as we have seen countless times, the market ALWAYS comes back. The trick is to avoid the stocks that do get purged when markets fall. A dividend paying ETF will cut that out and do that for you. Since knowing what stocks are holding up and survive an economic down turn is a full time job, the ETF can help you out this way as well.
anyways, please dont dump all your money into silver nor gold.
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Valued Member
 United States
65 Posts |
Well, I still don't trust the stock market. I'm too old, and as things are, retired. As things were back then, I got out several weeks before any indication of a market crash was evident. As I said, I have a sixth sense about some things, and I followed that sense. Except for my 10 percent loss for early withdrawal on my 401K's, I had, at the time, always made money. I watched things very carefully, and did that weekly, making adjustments to just what I was invested in. I might not have made much money, but if I had managed to stay in, my average yearly increase was in double figures. I've had a sense for the stock market ever since I was a child, when I played the Market just for fun. But enough of stocks, I am doing what I enjoy right now, investing in precious metals, even if I don't make any money. I get something that will have a decent return, and at the same time, enjoy looking at some of it.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Since you've decided on metal, your suggestion of saving to buy a larger quantity closer to melt is a good one. Use your LCS if possible to avoid postage.
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Valued Member
United States
231 Posts |
I'd probably go for pre-1965 US half-dollars, quarters, and dimes, also known as junk silver or constitutional silver. You get some variety, can cherry pick nicer examples at the local coin shop, can buy large amounts easily or can make small purchases when you don't have a ton of money but just want to buy some. Also, they are very liquid and simple for your niece to sell when the time comes. I think you are doing a very nice thing for her!
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
you guys say that stocks or a better investment, about 6 years ago I invested $10,000.00 in stocks and lost all but $2,000.00. If I had invested in gold what would I have today ? Gold. I took this 2,000 and bought coins ( ASE) that I still have today plus there value has gone up some. I'm thinking about silver rings and gold rings to invest in.
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Valued Member
 United States
65 Posts |
cuzzx, So sorry you got hit by the stock market. That was what I was saying in an earlier post. So many small investors, and your investment is small as compared to the big boys and girls who play the market, got hit hard, or totally KO'd. My thought is that gold, silver and gems are always going to have a certain amount of stability. Yes, the values can go up and down, but for the most part, they stay within a certain range, so that is why I like these investments, especially since I don't have thousands of dollars or more to invest. I am limited to a few hundred every once in a while, which puts me down in the very small investor range.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1326 Posts |
I've had good luck finding foreign silver coins on ebay at around melt-value and sometimes at a sizable discount. Ir does take a lot of time, though.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
hcuzzx: Don't "invest" in jewellery. You are not buying gold. You are buying karat gold. You are also paying a high margin to have someone turn a gold bar into a diluted round sheet or wire. Jewellery is not something you want to dump savings into. Jewellery is about showing off, it's about fashion, it's about looking and feeling good. Buy it if you appreciate art or want to be flashy, not to hold your wealth. Even with chains, possibly the lowest margin gold item is not going to hold up when you sell it. A wholesaler pays a premium, so think about that when you, the retail consumer, consider buying. Your best option is to go to an Indian jeweler who makes 22 karat gold, or just buying the most generic 24 karat bar. Karat gold is like sugar water compared to drinking water. You're paying for the alloy, the labor and tools, the marketing, wastage, the jeweler's insurance and rent, possibly the name-brand too... On the flip side, if you want to give a jeweler "old" gold to make a new piece you will receive a lousy product because the gold is "dirty" therefore risking porosity and most certainly lots of wastage, the alloys are different for each jeweler, so the melted karat gold doesn't metallurgically mix properly. I've dealt with this firsthand and have had to tell clients that it's entirely THEIR fault. A proper product will require a savvy manufacturer to first refine the old gold into 24 karat so that proper alloys can be used. If you want a cast product (ie, not made by hand, and cast pieces are what 99% of modern pieces are today thanks to 3d printing) you will be required to give the jeweler approximately 50 percent more gold than is required to get the gold to flow into the mold without porosity issues - you want the gold to shine, right? And if you want a fabricated piece (ie, made by hand) using old gold, there's a huge possibility that the karat gold will crack while rolling it to shape, and no sane jeweler will do this. The whole point of karat gold is its luster, since 24 karat and 22 karat don't shine the same way as 18 karat and lower, and it's a MAJOR waste of gold to polish high karats. Anyways, don't dump your savings into jewellery. Buy it because it's shiny and it looks good on you - no other reason.
Regarding silver jewellery, a simple ".925" stamp is not enough these days. I run into lots of imported garbage that even when brand new, although they look pretty spiffy, are a pain to resize, hence pricy. Most of them are silver plated, or have an unusually high copper content that make them turn pink when heated. They also don't even set the stones with proper bearings and will fall out with the lightest of taps on the mandrel. You cannot (!) trust the stamps. Ever.
Edited by Libertad 10/06/2017 5:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
Man I love dirtfishing 1970's .925 and 14kt.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors... Roll hunting since '77 Dirt fishing since '72
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Replies: 24 / Views: 5,797 |
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