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 Replies: 11 / Views: 2,279 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Over the past few months I have acquired around 15 English medieval cut 1/2d and 1/4d and have only just found the time to start attributing these. Rather than clogging up other threads or making multiple threads I'll post all in here as I get around to photographing and attributing these over the coming weeks for anyone who's interested. I find these fun identifying the class, mints and moneyers - even more so when you only have a fraction of the coin the work with. Interesting history aswell. I'll try to post information about how to identify the different classes and subclasses aswell as mints, moneyers and a little historical background as I get time.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1269 Posts |
I would be very interested to see what you find out abut these coins. Lately I have become interested in these fascinating coins.
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Been a little busy, have found the time to start identifying these. First up - Henry III Voided Long Cross 1/4d Class 2-3c Moneyer HVGE (Hugo Silvester) Winchester Mint 1248-1250  I've orientated the first photo as it would be of a whole coin - in this case, the obverse you can see a partial legend of VSR ([HENRIC]VS R[EX]) and Henry IIIs chin - not a great deal here to attribute to a more specific class. The reverse legend - ChE, was rather fortunate as this only appears for one mint and moneyer. The full legend being HVG/EON/WIN/ChE. This allowed me to tie this coin down nicely and helped with the class aswell. HVGE struck coins in class 2-3c. Winchester was one of the provincial mints re-opened during the early years of the long cross coinage, when the maximum effort was required to convert the circulating short cross coins into the new long cross type. It probably commenced operation in the second quarter of 1248 and struck coins of classes 2a through to 3c, except 2b. |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Looks like you got your work cut out for you. I would think it's going to be a challenge to ID these.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
All part of the fun, echizento! I like a challenge. Henry III Voided Long Cross 1/2d Class 3c Canterbury mint Moneyer Nicole or Willem 1249-1250  The obverse has left just enough to work with to tie this down to class 3c. The position of the obverse legend starts at 12 o'clock, which narrows this down to pre class 5. The crown changes in phases over class 4 from the central ornament and side ornaments being made up of pellets to a central fleur-de-lis and side half-lis. The crown on this example is made up of pellets narrowing down the class to 2-4a. No coins appear to have been minted in Canterbury from class 4a. Beginning in class 3c a pellet appears between the hair curls, as can be seen in the image above. The has now narrowed down to 3c and 3d - these can be differentiated by the style of R. The Reverse legend ONC/ANT only appears for 2 moneyers from Canterbury - Nicole and Willem. Unfortunately both of these were producing coins for class 3c so I'm unable to know who the moneyer was. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Henry III Voided Long Cross 1/2d Class 5b-c Moneyer Henri (Henry Frowik) London Mint 1249-1250  Classification I've classified this one as 5b-c. Looking at the position of the letters on the obverse, the legend starts at 10oclock so this is class 5. The small crescent between curls narrows this down to 5a-c. This can be further knocked down due to the style of R - ball tail R for class 5a, wedge tailed R for class 5b-c. The differentiation between 5b and 5c is the style of eye which unfortunately cannot be seen on this example. Mint and Moneyer The reverse legend - NLV/NDE. LVNDE being the mint signature for London, that's simple. There are a lot of Variations of mint signature for London usually based on the length of the moneyers name. In this case, Henri is the only Moneyer to use LVNDE. Full legend - [HEN/RIO]/NLV/NDE. |
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Moderator
United States
34413 Posts |
Very nice work so far--thanks for taking the time to teach us. What is your reference on the various sub-classes of silver pennies?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Spence, there's many! Spink - Coins of England, I use this mainly for the reference numbers as they're widely recognised, other than that the descriptions and pictures are very basic. Coincraft 1999, a little more detailed and has enlarged line drawings of the classes/subclasses which are helpful. There are a set of books written by Christopher Wren, I have a copy of the short cross identification and it's suberb! Can definitely recommend. http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/Long-C...ies%20P1.htmThis guide has been a fantastic help. http://www.henry3.com/ is also very helpful, lots of images to compare with! http://britnumsoc.org/publications/...%20BNJ.shtml alot of specialized work has been published over the years in the British Numismatic Journal, theres a contents pdf to help find the useful articles. Would definitely recommend looking through the original works by LA Lawrence - although over 100 years old, this is the work that the classification we use today is based upon. Also included in these are pages upon pages of the full inscriptions for all mints and Moneyers, which is immensely useful. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1269 Posts |
Many thanks! I have bookmarked these references. Very useful!
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Moderator
United States
34413 Posts |
Ok yes that is a great help. I have been using Spink, but as you describe it doesn't go into this level of detail.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Really interesting thread...will be following and learning..Thanks!  Paul |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Henry III Voided Long Cross 1/2d Class 5b Moneyer Willem Canterbury mint c.1253  Classification The way in which this one has been cut has kept all the useful features to allow a decent attribution. Class 5 is obvious at first glance due the presence of the sceptre and the legend begins at 10oclock, but the hair curls are still made up of pellets in crescents rather than a naturalistic style. The round eyes, small crescent between hair curls and wedge tailed R tie this down nicely to 5b. Mint and moneyer The reverse inscription WIL/LEM ties this to a Willem, however there are many - 3 just for Canterbury! Working in our favour, only one mint had a Willem in service for class 5b - Canterbury. |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,279 |
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Posted 11/07/2017 5:15 pm
