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'manufactured Spending': How A University Student Racked Up Travel Rewards

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
705 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  1:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add wilsonwu89 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Good lord.

I'm trying to post the link to the CBC article but I can't link it for some reason. It's about a college kid using the 20-for-20 program to fund travels around the world. -__________-

Just copy and paste the thread title in Google.

*Haven't really posted here for the past year. Been living in China. Hi everyone. :)
Edited by wilsonwu89
11/15/2017 2:04 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just read this via URL on the other site.

I can understand, when people using some "loopholes" for the small profit here and there.

But in this case...would send this guy to the mandatory works, somewhere very far (he deserved free flight), to pay-off the expenses that he caused.
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thehulk's Avatar
Canada
178 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thehulk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The guy is a law student so he's already mastered the legal but not ethical part of the job. All due apologies to any ethical lawyers on CCF! Also notice the American guy in that article who bought $3 million in Presidential dollars for the airline points! I'm half disgusted and half impressed.
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BigSilver's Avatar
United States
2843 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This comes up from time to time.
Was a guy in the UK who was doing this with commemrative high FV coins, and then the banks stopped taking them.
IMO, one camnot pass instant judgement on people who choose to act this way. Determining what is ethical behaviour is not a science.
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CC-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
3690 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CC-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The link.

http://www.cbc.ca/1.4390911

At least we now know who to blame for killing the FV program.
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MoneyPenney's Avatar
Canada
2984 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Read the comments after the article. Half of the people think he is a crook and the other half think he is a hero.

The loophole, of course, was you could earn points/rewards by buying the coins and returning them to a third party, ie. the bank for a refund. Note you could not keep the points if you bought and return the coins to the RCM. Similar to buying a TV and returning it to the store you lose your points.

This is one guy who came forward with this story, there must be hundreds or thousands of others doing the same thing. No wonder the Mint cancelled the FV program after losing money.
Edited by MoneyPenney
11/15/2017 3:49 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most credit cards are 1% reward so in order to gain a 2000.00 dollar flight you would , need 200,000 worth of x for x coins can't see how an individual was able to buy such amount. The US Mint at one time was shipping coins in bulk bags, that's how the person ordered 3 millions worth, I still think the biggest reason the RCM stopped the x for x is the unlimited redemption costs plus the 2% bank fees and shipping fees to the tune of 168 million. You can't blame the end users if you are stupid enough to offer such a program. Also how many students would have 100 grand limit credit cards ?
Edited by john100
11/15/2017 4:22 pm
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The guy is a law student so he's already mastered the legal but not ethical part of the job. All due apologies to any ethical lawyers on CCF! Also notice the American guy in that article who bought $3 million in Presidential dollars for the airline points! I'm half disgusted and half impressed.


Nothing unethical about them figuring out a flaw in the program design. The airline guy didn't steal from anyone and the airline offers those reward points on their own.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the rules of the game are set up for abuse, they will be abused.

I'm not Joshing.
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canadian_coins's Avatar
United States
2408 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Releasing the X4X coins through the banking system would have resolved all the issues.

--> Cash only, no CC points involved
--> Banks get the goodwill, new clients maybe
--> No rep commissions involved, less greed
--> Fewer redemptions - obviously
--> Attract collectors, not speculators

I can't fault the ones who saw an opportunity to collect travel miles. I do fault the RCM for failing to execute on a really good idea.


Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, it easy to be smart looking backwards.
but RCM still should predict this situation.
The best solution could be:

After initial 3-5 XforX coins, to continue the "inexpensive coins with simple design" program, but setting Face Value as in Bullion:

1oz - $5
1/2 oz - $4
1/4 oz - $3

and the pricing is CAD 20 - 50.

In this case no one will redeem CAD 50 priced coin for CAD 5 FV.
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canadian_coins's Avatar
United States
2408 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, it easy to be smart looking backwards.


Not really, you still have to look ahead and avoid the same mistake.



Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This program was to attract new customers, which it did but when the RCM finally realized there is 168 million big reasons of future redemptions, that's what caused the stoppage. I don't know of many RCM customers that had reps that would allow 10,000 in purchase and my guess the RCM's computers would red flag a same credit card buying oddles of these coins if not shame on the RCM, 10000 bucks to gain 100 dollars of air miles with all kinds of restrictions.
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MoneyPenney's Avatar
Canada
2984 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2017  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an video of the law student, Avery Campbell, explaining "Manufactured Spending".

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.3680016

Apparently the FV coin program is only one aspect of "manufactured spending". He and another group of people do this on s regular basis with other things. So the free 1st class ticket, hotel stays, etc. are not only from the FV program but other spending.

From the article:

"There is a large manufactured spending community online, but much of it is hush-hush. Manufactured spending is frowned upon by merchants and credit cards because it's not the way loyalty programs are meant to work. There are inherent costs when someone manufactures spending, such as handling or administrative fees, which are often incurred by the merchant"

Campbell, who said he's aware of another "really large program in Canada that's ripe for abuse," admitted that manufactured spending does come at a cost to someone.

"Companies want to make profit," said Campbell. "Manufacturing spending hurts their bottom line. Someone has to pay for it at the end of the day and usually it's the seller of the product. And other purchasers of the product who aren't doing manufactured spending have to subsidize for people like me."
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188052 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also notice the American guy in that article who bought $3 million in Presidential dollars for the airline points!
Yup. It happened quite a bit down here. This is why we can no longer buy bags of dollars from the US Mint for face value (this was a program created to get them to circulate).
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canadian_coins's Avatar
United States
2408 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
10000 bucks to gain 100 dollars of air miles with all kinds of restrictions.


Actually, the equation works more like ZERO bucks to gain 100 dollars of air miles.

And if it can be done...
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