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Replies: 22 / Views: 7,959 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
705 Posts |
Good lord.
I'm trying to post the link to the CBC article but I can't link it for some reason. It's about a college kid using the 20-for-20 program to fund travels around the world. -__________-
Just copy and paste the thread title in Google.
*Haven't really posted here for the past year. Been living in China. Hi everyone. :) Edited by wilsonwu89 11/15/2017 2:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Just read this via URL on the other site.
I can understand, when people using some "loopholes" for the small profit here and there.
But in this case...would send this guy to the mandatory works, somewhere very far (he deserved free flight), to pay-off the expenses that he caused.
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Valued Member
Canada
178 Posts |
The guy is a law student so he's already mastered the legal but not ethical part of the job. All due apologies to any ethical lawyers on CCF! Also notice the American guy in that article who bought $3 million in Presidential dollars for the airline points! I'm half disgusted and half impressed.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
This comes up from time to time. Was a guy in the UK who was doing this with commemrative high FV coins, and then the banks stopped taking them. IMO, one camnot pass instant judgement on people who choose to act this way. Determining what is ethical behaviour is not a science.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2984 Posts |
Read the comments after the article. Half of the people think he is a crook and the other half think he is a hero. The loophole, of course, was you could earn points/rewards by buying the coins and returning them to a third party, ie. the bank for a refund. Note you could not keep the points if you bought and return the coins to the RCM. Similar to buying a TV and returning it to the store you lose your points. This is one guy who came forward with this story, there must be hundreds or thousands of others doing the same thing. No wonder the Mint cancelled the FV program after losing money.
Edited by MoneyPenney 11/15/2017 3:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Most credit cards are 1% reward so in order to gain a 2000.00 dollar flight you would , need 200,000 worth of x for x coins can't see how an individual was able to buy such amount. The US Mint at one time was shipping coins in bulk bags, that's how the person ordered 3 millions worth, I still think the biggest reason the RCM stopped the x for x is the unlimited redemption costs plus the 2% bank fees and shipping fees to the tune of 168 million. You can't blame the end users if you are stupid enough to offer such a program. Also how many students would have 100 grand limit credit cards ?
Edited by john100 11/15/2017 4:22 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:The guy is a law student so he's already mastered the legal but not ethical part of the job. All due apologies to any ethical lawyers on CCF! Also notice the American guy in that article who bought $3 million in Presidential dollars for the airline points! I'm half disgusted and half impressed. Nothing unethical about them figuring out a flaw in the program design. The airline guy didn't steal from anyone and the airline offers those reward points on their own.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
If the rules of the game are set up for abuse, they will be abused.
I'm not Joshing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Releasing the X4X coins through the banking system would have resolved all the issues. --> Cash only, no CC points involved --> Banks get the goodwill, new clients maybe --> No rep commissions involved, less greed --> Fewer redemptions - obviously --> Attract collectors, not speculators I can't fault the ones who saw an opportunity to collect travel miles. I do fault the RCM for failing to execute on a really good idea.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Well, it easy to be smart looking backwards. but RCM still should predict this situation. The best solution could be: After initial 3-5 XforX coins, to continue the "inexpensive coins with simple design" program, but setting Face Value as in Bullion: 1oz - $5 1/2 oz - $4 1/4 oz - $3 and the pricing is CAD 20 - 50. In this case no one will redeem CAD 50 priced coin for CAD 5 FV.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Quote: Well, it easy to be smart looking backwards. Not really, you still have to look ahead and avoid the same mistake.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
This program was to attract new customers, which it did but when the RCM finally realized there is 168 million big reasons of future redemptions, that's what caused the stoppage. I don't know of many RCM customers that had reps that would allow 10,000 in purchase and my guess the RCM's computers would red flag a same credit card buying oddles of these coins if not shame on the RCM, 10000 bucks to gain 100 dollars of air miles with all kinds of restrictions.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2984 Posts |
Here is an video of the law student, Avery Campbell, explaining "Manufactured Spending". http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.3680016Apparently the FV coin program is only one aspect of "manufactured spending". He and another group of people do this on s regular basis with other things. So the free 1st class ticket, hotel stays, etc. are not only from the FV program but other spending. From the article: "There is a large manufactured spending community online, but much of it is hush-hush. Manufactured spending is frowned upon by merchants and credit cards because it's not the way loyalty programs are meant to work. There are inherent costs when someone manufactures spending, such as handling or administrative fees, which are often incurred by the merchant" Campbell, who said he's aware of another "really large program in Canada that's ripe for abuse," admitted that manufactured spending does come at a cost to someone. "Companies want to make profit," said Campbell. "Manufacturing spending hurts their bottom line. Someone has to pay for it at the end of the day and usually it's the seller of the product. And other purchasers of the product who aren't doing manufactured spending have to subsidize for people like me."
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Moderator
 United States
188052 Posts |
Quote:Also notice the American guy in that article who bought $3 million in Presidential dollars for the airline points! Yup. It happened quite a bit down here. This is why we can no longer buy bags of dollars from the US Mint for face value (this was a program created to get them to circulate).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Quote: 10000 bucks to gain 100 dollars of air miles with all kinds of restrictions. Actually, the equation works more like ZERO bucks to gain 100 dollars of air miles. And if it can be done...
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Replies: 22 / Views: 7,959 |