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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,616 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
822 Posts |
At first glance it's a scratched up old wreck.   A closer look reveals that the whole legend on both sides has been doubled. Hard to believe no one noticed for so long.     The bow of the ship points to the A on the obvious strike and between the DA on the underlying image - 2 varieties for the price of one. Would this be called a rotated double-strike ?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Very cool. Double struck for sure, something like a 5-10 degree rotation
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
I do not believe this to be a double strike but rather being struck over a worn-out host token.
Away back when, workmanship and quality control were not as demanding as nowadays.
The fonts of the host token differ (especially the numeral 2), although the proximity of the legend appears congruent.
Perhaps with study and imagination, the host token type may be ascertained.
An interesting study piece. Nice find.
doug
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
 Bit confused - the host token is apparently of the same date with identical letter/numeral spacing - how could it have worn down enough to be reused in the same year?
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9865 Posts |
I think it's a double-struck, the different appearance in the letters is due to smushng
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website
Edited by DBM 12/10/2017 5:24 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
This is a well-worn ensample yet the spacing of the legend is bothersome to merely be a double strike. Concerning the date photo, what appears like a colon (to the immediate right of the numeral 1)are actually the hollows of the digit 8 from the host token. The hollows are considerably smaller in diameter than those of the actual 8.
The base of the host digit 2 is heavy and blunt, whereas that of the actual 2 is narrower and pointed. Note the distance betwixt the furthest east point of the upper circle of the digit 8 and the nearest left point of the digit 2. Imagine where the extremities of the same digits of the host ensample actually were. The spacing betwixt the two digits appear considerably more distant on the host token.
Concerning the word UPPER...The hollows of the letter R differ, the hollow of the host R is much smaller. The fonts should not differ if being a double strike, but do so if the font of the host coin differ. Attached to the upper left section of the same R, something resembling the left arm of the letter T is evident on the host token. There is no like letter in the word UPPER to have been doubled. Perhaps the host token had the word TRADE.
A distinctive rectangular mass to the left of the upper section of the E in the same word is found on the host token. I am at a loss to correlate this anomaly with anything being re-struck from the word UPPER. And betwixt the letters PP in UPPER, the upright of the letter E is found on the host token. The only E in UPPER is next to the letter R. The E of the host token is not from the word UPPER.
The more one examines this token, the more inconsistencies of being double-struck become manifest. Many tokens of this era were re-struck over various host coins/tokens and this I believe to be the case. I have no idea what the original host token was.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
The more one examines this token, the more inconsistencies of being double-struck become manifest. Many tokens of this era were re-struck over various host coins/tokens and this I believe to be the case. I have no idea what the original host token was.
doug
Certainly a very interesting study piece as the above experts are still not sure..but I like the hard work being given on this coin. Thanks for sharing it here.. .
Edited by DEVLEC 12/11/2017 8:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
822 Posts |
I think colonial-tokens is trying too hard. The difference in the centres of the letters being smaller on the ghost letters is easily explained; the ghost letters were struck first - the second strike flattened those letters. Remember that the letters on the die are incused and the fields are the high point. The raised part of the field between letters crushed the raised letters down and squished the metal outward and inward into centres. thus the holes look smaller and the letter looks bigger. As to the UPPER problem, let's just look at the raised PER.  The top-left of the P shows the curved outline of the ghost P, the left curved part shows the left straight side of ghost P.  The E shows the curved part of the ghost 2nd P, while the right side of the E shows the back of the ghost E.  The R shows the ends of the ghost E on the left and the back of the ghost R on the right. A close look at CANADA also reveals a lot of serifs of the ghost letters overlapped by the second strike. There's no doubt it was struck over itself. All the lettering is the same on both sides, some ghosting does not show in photos but is there all around. I'm wondering if maybe there was a 2-piece die used ? The lettering is all doubled but there is no sign of the ship, shovels and anvil being doubled. It could also account for the different varieties of where the bow points.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I agree completely. I respect colonialtokens' scholarship, but clearly the host token is a partially effaced earlier example of the same 1820 striking, and it defies logic to suggest otherwise. 
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Valued Member
United States
460 Posts |
I also agree.....there is no way that the original host token could be different and have the various design elements and date in the matching positions they are in.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
I believe the "difference" in fonts is due to the first strike being smeared or flattened by the second strike.
In my humble opinion it is a double struck example.
Would've been really something to see before all the mileage it acquired.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,616 |
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