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Question About Double Die And MD

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 Posted 12/21/2017  8:06 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ndn78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
On real double die errors..are the devices doubled always the same height? With widening of the devices with varying degrees of seperations? And is there always telltale signs of Seperation? Seems Machine Doubling the doubled part of devices are either flatter height Wise..and what is an incuse die..just wanna b sure I understood this all correctly
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2017  8:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good question! You do recognize that in hub doubling the devices are ALWAYS INCREASED in size. Usually "width" but it is possible to have different heights as well. An older working hub that has been polished is shallower than a fresh hub die. Dependening on which was first hubbed, direction and strength of compression, if you were to view the devices side on, yes, you would see microns of difference.

No, there are many cases where there is no split/notch or separation line, just a larger than normal device. Depends on the 8 types of hub doubling. Read this to help get a better perspective:
Edited by Crazyb0
12/21/2017 8:33 pm
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 12/21/2017  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a thread that I posted on a while back that the subject was discussed.
http://goccf.com/t/300641
Raised devices are what we often see on coins. The die design is incuse or negative of the coincidence design. They are mirrored so they will be a positive on the coins that are struck.
Incuse devices are sunk into the coin. Previous examples have been the VDB on the shoulder of the Lincoln Cent. The shield cents have the EPU design as incuse now. The ATB parks quarters have letters on the reverse ring, that are incuse. I took 100 of them and determined that 70%of them had some Machine Doubling on them. A number a lot larger than I expected. But to make the services on coins, the devices on the die need to be raised and mirrored. The slightest die movement before or after the strike will alter the devices. Hope this helps.
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 Posted 12/21/2017  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mrzllewellyn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You got the two best answers you will receive on here right there two people I look to reply to my thread good questions though
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 Posted 12/22/2017  04:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 12/23/2017  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ndn78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the great replies...very helpful indeed..alot of the coins I had now have been downgraded. Lol...a learning experince so glad I joined this forum..makes alot more sense now
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 Posted 12/23/2017  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cookiemonster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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dbrablec's Avatar
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 Posted 12/23/2017  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dbrablec to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to be clear- doubled dies are not errors - they are varieties. Not that that changes the point of your question.
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 Posted 12/23/2017  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dbrablec, quite right, but in today's idiotic frenzy of megabuck hopefuls, even logical minded experts seem to have gone off the rails. That line of formal definition has been lost, what was once the easy distinction between a "mint production" error and a "mint striking" error is blurred.
Question-About-Double-Die-And-MD
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 12/23/2017  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


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 Posted 12/28/2017  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ndn78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So what would be considered an error? So double dies aren't errors they are varieties... and if course md is simply mechanical error not human error as with a dd variety....im thinking that errors would b something like a mule or wrong date or mint marks and such
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