1972-S Proof Lincoln Memorial Cent / LMC Doubled Die Obverse / DDO ? - Page 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 25 / Views: 4,497	Page: of 2

coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 02/03/2018 9:33 pm Looks like Master Die doubling on a proof coin. Going to have to check to see if this happened a lot on the proof dies. 1972-S DDO FS-101 Note the notch on the 'G' on GOD is present on FS-101. I don't see it on the OPs coin. I found example of the Master die doubling also on the Proof 1972-S cents. So it was also on them, but not a lot of them had this so far: Edited by coop 02/03/2018 9:48 pm Report this Post to the Staff
JDRMCB Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 02/03/2018 9:52 pm Quote: Remember, when TPG's grade coins, including doubled dies, they typically use a 5x loupe. Not 100x or 250x. Just 5x. Do they make 100x & 250x loupes? Really? I use a 10x jewelers loupe that I've had for years. So you're telling me it's 5x too much? Anyways, you're missing my point...a working die that was created from a re-engraved Master die is not the same thing as a working die that was created by a hubbed doubled Master Die, right? To my understanding, each Die type would produce two completely different types of varieties. Yet every time someone posts a possible 1972 DDO on here they are told what they are seeing is the result of a hub doubled Master Die which is VERY confusing when you attempt to apply what you've learned, to what you are seeing on the coin. Which in the case of my coin, would NOT be considered a doubled die at all, but a proof coin that was struck from a working proof die that was hubbed from a unique, yet very poorly re-engraved Master Die. Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 02/03/2018 10:40 pm Here is how the Master Hub, Master die, Working Hubs and Working dies are created: There are two master dies made. If one of them are hub doubled, the 50% of the dies would he master die doubled. On the 1972 coins, we see a lot of Master die coins. The second image I posted was one of the master die proof hubs. I checked on PCGS and only found two examples of these there. The best one I posted in the second image. I was not aware there was MDD on the proof cents. (new thought to me) Report this Post to the Staff
JDRMCB Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 02/04/2018 02:13 am Quote: There are two master dies made. If one of them are hub doubled, the 50% of the dies would he master die doubled. On the 1972 coins, we see a lot of Master die coins. The point I'm trying to make Coop is that the 1972 Master Die wasn't hub doubled. The characteristics seen on one of the two Master Die's used to hub 50% of all working dies was actually the result of a poor re-engraving of the Master Die itself by one of the Mint engravers. Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 02/04/2018 2:32 pm Wexler makes not mention of re-engraving on these cents: http://doubleddie.com/203801.html Lincoln Cent doesn't mention re-engraving on their site: http://www.Lincolncentforum.com/197...ie-doubling/ Lincolncentsonline doesn't mention re-engraving: http://Lincolncentsonline.com/doubledDies.html A quote from "Looking through Cents" Doesn't mention re-engraving, just master die doubling: https://books.google.com/books?id=A...ents&f=false CONECA only mentions Master die doubling on the 1972 cents. So what is your source? I can see what you are talking about, but no one else recognizes on the internet so far. Report this Post to the Staff
JDRMCB Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 02/05/2018 08:35 am If it was such a significant case of Master Die doubling, why did it not even garner a mention under the Master Die doubling section of ERROR-REF.COM? I would think that the 1972 LMC would be considered more relevant than the Master Die doubling on 1918 LWC or even the 1960 SD LMC, if it was indeed a genuine case of Master Die doubling. http://www.error-ref.com/master-die-doubling/ Report this Post to the Staff
JDRMCB Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 02/05/2018 08:57 am And let's not ignore the obvious...when looking at the coin, which of the two makes makes more sense? Re-engraved die or Hub doubled die? If it is the result of genuine hub doubling, what class would it be considered? I always considered the characteristics of the 1972 "Master Die doubling" a confusing exception to the rule of hub doubled dies because it just never really made sense to me. But now that I find out it was the result of a re-engraved Die, it makes a whole lot more sense. Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 02/05/2018 12:21 pm The above quote you posts\ed says it was his "contention that is was from a re-engraved master die." So what is the source of that quote from? Experts from different sites all the time disagree with each other. Added: Never mind, I just re-read the previous post on the CONCEA site. It was not that I was doubting as much as I was wanting to see a source. I missed the images from the Variety Vista site from before or were added after I posted. I felt it looked like that to me, just needed who brought this idea up. Thanks for this information update to me. Edited by coop 02/05/2018 12:44 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Crazyb0 Rest in Peace 10197 Posts	Posted 02/05/2018 12:36 pm A fine point of difference in OP's earlier posted pix of the you in TRUST looking like VV, it doesn't upon closer look, it is MDD, period, dot. End of story. The shift is SE on MDD the shift on VV DDO is East. Similar IS NOT identical. Report this Post to the Staff
JDRMCB Pillar of the Community United States 616 Posts	Posted 02/05/2018 4:13 pm Quote: A fine point of difference in OP's earlier posted pix of the you in TRUST looking like VV, it doesn't upon closer look, it is MDD, period, dot. End of story. The shift is SE on MDD the shift on VV DDO is East. Similar IS NOT identical Of course that is Machine Doubling, that fact is obvious. You would think that they would have found a better example to use as the reference coin. However, it is a fine example showing that both forms of doubling (machine & hub doubling) can exist on the same coin:)) Through my research into this enigma known as the 1972 Master Die doubled LMC, I finally realized that my coin is NOT a doubled die at all, after I discovered that what I was seeing was in fact the result of a re-engraved Master Die it all began to make perfect sense. Here.....maybe these visual aids will help. Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 25 / Views: 4,497	Page: of 2

First Page Last 15 Replies

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: US Coins and Currency Forums Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

View Last 100 New Topics

View Last 100 Active Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.29 seconds to rattle this change.

1972-S Proof LMC DDO?