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Help I.d.ing Old Japanese Coins

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Valued Member
Delareece's Avatar
Canada
101 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2018  11:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Delareece to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey guys,

Recently I've inherited my grandpa's/great grandpa's coin collection. I've started protecting them and cataloging them, however, I'm running into some trouble. I'd really like to confirm the monetary value and approximate date of each coin, but I'm having trouble finding a good online reference, specifically for old Japanese Coins. I would post an upclose picture of each coin but...

Help-I.d.ing-Old-Japanese-Coins

...there are quite a few coins to identify.

The information I have written on each cardboard protector is the information my grandpa/great grandpa had attacthed to each coin by a string (and cardboard tag). I have no idea it's accuracy, and it doesn't exactly help for google searching.

Help-I.d.ing-Old-Japanese-Coins

These are the 7 coins I've managed to identify based off the website Numista:

1835 - 1870 Tempo 100 Mon x2
1863 - 1868 Bunkyueiho 4 Mon
1784 - 1787 Tenmei (Sendai) 1 Mon
1769 - 1860 Kanei Tsuho 4 Mon
1616 - 1646 Genyu (Seal Script) 1 Mon

annnnnd just to throw another wrench in the puzzle, I did identify one China - Empire Kuang-hsu era 1905 10 Cash coin...

However, I do believe most, if not all of the rest of the unidentified coins are old Japanese coins, not Chinese. My guess is that they are Japense coins from different provinces with all the same monetary value. Most of them were labeled with various forms of "Tsuho".

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Rest in Peace
Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2018  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you can't find on Numista, then I don't know about Japanese, I use this for Chinese. About all I can offer.

http://www.calgarycoin.com/referenc...a/china8.htm
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/japon-1.html
Edited by Crazyb0
03/18/2018 11:36 pm
Valued Member
Delareece's Avatar
Canada
101 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2018  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Delareece to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the links for the Chinese coins. I'm fairly sure they are Japanese coins, but it wouldn't hurt to check out Chinese coins to make sure.

Also while on the topic, if a Japanese coin expert happens to stumble across this thread, maybe they can confirm this for me too...

Help-I.d.ing-Old-Japanese-Coins

Help-I.d.ing-Old-Japanese-Coins

I looked this coin up on Numista and am fairly confident it's a:

1784 - 1787 Tenmei (Sendai) 1 Mon coin

However, it almost seems too good to be true. My coin seems to be in rather good condition considering it's age. According to the website; "The coin was so bad that, if they were carried in a bag for one day it would be torn, and out of a hundred, two or three would be broken."

The coin doesn't look like Cast Iron to me either. I'd say it almost looks more copper-ish, but I'm far from an expert.

"Copper specimens will probably be mother coins for casting the iron coins, or fantasies."

I doubt it's a fantasy seeing as all the other coins look pretty authentic.

According to https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide/world/ the price for this coin in the VF to XF grade is around $60-$100.

Thoughts?
Pillar of the Community
aiglet7's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2018  12:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aiglet7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From your photos. you appear to have inherited a wonderful collection. Here is a link that you might find useful:-

https://www.imes.boj.or.jp/cm/engli...nt/#Medieval

Also:- http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty...pancash.html

If you really want to study and fully identify these Japanese coins you should invest in a copy of one of the best books available: Early Japanese Coins by David Hartill.

Good luck!
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2018  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Delareece, there is an earlier thread on CCF from 2009 that has some information that may be helpful. See the link provided in the third post down. http://goccf.com/t/54009

Happy researching!
Pillar of the Community
Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2018  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lovely coins!

Up close pictures would certainly help; just do a few at a time and we'll get through them in no time!

I hate to he the one to bear bad news, but I can say at a minimum that many of the coins are not properly attributed. As outlined in the Japanese Mint website, there were a few general phases to pre-Meiji Japanese coinage:

- Up to 680 AD - No coinage issued at all, strictly barter/commodities trading

- 680-708 - "Fuhon-sen" made as a technology demonstration; only about 30 coins from a single cache known, all owned by the Japanese government.

- 708-958 - "Twelve Antique" coins; 12 designs made over 250 years, but mismanagement led to the collapse of a monetized economy. The legal tender status was cancelled and nearly all were melted - some exist in private collections; the price tag is usually four or five figures. Fakes are rampant and convincing.

- 958-1608 - Legal reversion to commodities economy, although cash coins circulated in local and illegal economies. Coins pedigreed to Japanese workshops are known as "bitasen" or "bad copper" while coins found both inside and outside of Japan and of uncertain origin are called "shimasen". Both are available and affordable, although it is tough work to attribute them, as all are copies of Song dynasty coins.

- 1659-1685 - Export coins made to bolster trade from Nagasaki. These were made by the Tokugawa clan of very high quality copper, and are copies of Song coins, but well-documented and usually with distinguishing characteristics. This is likely your "Genyu seal script" coin.

- 1626-1867 - All 1 mon coins standardized to "Kan-Ei Tsuho" design. Except for a handful of varieties, these are common as dirt and sell for only a few dollars each. Copper quality began to decline in the early 1700s, and the coins were mostly iron by the 1800s. Many intermediate specimens are seemingly good copper, but are magnetic due to being alloyed with iron to stretch the copper further.

In addition to the 1 mon, there was a 10 mon (1708), Kanei type 4 mon (1768, 21 waves; 1769-1867, 11 waves), and then you already have the Bunkyu Eiho and Tempo Tsuho attributed. There was an explosion of private copper after the opening of the ports in the 1850s, but many types are expensive and heavily faked.
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2018  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are a lucky dog!
Caution. Do not be tempted to sell duplicates. What may appear to be the same to you, may actually be a rare variant.
Little things like the angle of the script, weight and border width can make a big difference.
They are great treasures and a wonderful way to keep the memory of your Grandfather/Great Grandfather alive.
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