NGC Calling Silver Electrodeposited Cap And Ray Counterfeits Cleaned

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Author	Replies: 3 / Views: 1,356
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/22/2018 3:26 pm https://coins.ha.com/itm/mexico/rep...osition=16\|0 If you look at this group of Cap and Rays in this auction and do a SEARCH WORD: CLEANED - to break out all the C&Rs in NGC holders called CLEANED. Note the fine deposit of silvering on a copper host. I mention these types in my new book Forgotten Coins. Have verified these types with XRF. These are well made witheir weights close to 26.5 grams. I think I have discussed this earlier with Realeswatcher. These are on mints outside of Chihuahua. No one will be paying any attention to this probably for years. See for yourself - they all have the same silvery/copper surface look when taking these coins into high magnification. Cleaning or dipping WILL NEVER create this type of surface effect. I suspect if you are a trained NGC grader and you see a non-natural toning surface effect on a coin - what will be your reaction? - the coin has been cleaned. IMO. JPL Edited by colonialjohn 03/22/2018 3:34 pm Report this Post to the Staff

kanga Pillar of the Community United States 5825 Posts	Posted 03/22/2018 3:29 pm That's probably the closest term they have to describe the situation. Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 03/22/2018 3:42 pm Still not 100% certain? I have analyzed around a dozen of these types with this surface effect and all have shown high copper in the brownish areas and silver levels in the >90 percentile for silver looking areas as this form as explained in Forgotten is electrodepositing nearly 100% pure silver particles on the surface of the coin. This is considered a post 1860 application and involves predomiantly C&R's. JPL Report this Post to the Staff
20021sc Valued Member United States 93 Posts	Posted 03/23/2018 10:41 pm colonialjohn : Maybe NGC and the other TPG companies should use XRF as standard procedure for ALL 8 Reales? I blew up the pictures and I can see what you're talking about. With a XRF test, NGC could have easily said it's counterfeit, not slabbed it as genuine. Whatever except saying that it's been CLEANED. This hobby will be ruined if something isn't done addressing this issue. Counterfeiting is getting easier and easier as time goes on. With new collectors and investors too, they will become very leery of shelling out big money for coins like this if they ever realize just trusting the deceptive descriptions by NGC and the other TPGs has cost them big time. Read the description of the first coin mentioned by NGC in the auction. I didn't have to read any more descriptions, that set the tone. Unbelievable. Report this Post to the Staff
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