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1719 Charles VI Thaler-Mount Removed?

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Valued Member
Matt2727's Avatar
United States
219 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2018  5:06 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Matt2727 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently bought this Austrian Thaler of Emperor Charles VI dated 1719. The coin has been certified AU Details-Mount Removed by PCGS, however both the dealer and I agreed there was no discernable evidence of a mount (that we can see with the slab on). What should I do? Would it be best to crack it out and leave it raw, or should I submit it to NGC? All thoughts are appreciated.
1719-Charles-VI-Thaler-Mount-Removed?
1719-Charles-VI-Thaler-Mount-Removed?
Sorry for the bad pictures!
Edited by Matt2727
03/24/2018 5:13 pm
Valued Member
wcg's Avatar
United States
217 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2018  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wcg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not see the mount based on your photo, but I would tend to give PCGS the benefit of the doubt on this one since they had it in hand. The plastic can hide things and I suspect there is rim damage or indentations where a mount was removed. I've seen mounts with obvious evidence of melted metal, and others with small holes (as if something was drilled into the coin from the rim). The worst case scenario is that you break it out, enjoy it raw for a bit, and then submit it to NGC just to have it end in a similar holder. There is not much downside to if you don't mind the NGC fees.
Valued Member
wcg's Avatar
United States
217 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2018  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wcg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice eye appeal by the way. 9 out of 10 would not identify it as mounted based on that photo.
Valued Member
wcg's Avatar
United States
217 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2018  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wcg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought an Italian States piastra years ago in a Heritage auction. The auction description stated that it was mounted, but the PCGS holder did not. It is in a PCGS AU-50 holder which is appropriate. Apparently the cataloguer and the grader did not see it in the same light. PCGS interpreted the metal at 12:00 on the reverse as a Cud, and the cataloguer saw it as evidence of a removed mount. Images are attached. I have studied it under a loupe many times and I have think PCGS was correct. I am fine with my decision to buy and the final hammer was a bit discounted as a result of the catalogue description. Point of the story is make your best judgement and enjoy it for what it is; not everybody will see it with the same eyes.
1719-Charles-VI-Thaler-Mount-Removed?
Valued Member
Matt2727's Avatar
United States
219 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2018  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Matt2727 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really appreciate your insight, wcg. I think I'll do like you said and crack it out to examine it by myself. If it turns out to be mounted oh well, but I have examined as much of the rim as possible with the slab on and I really can't see and Cud, dent, or indentation indicative of a removed mount.

That is a beautiful piastre! I have a similar coin, a Testone of the same Pope dated 1684.
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a link to super high resolution photos by PCGS. Should make it easier to see if there's something near the rim. Too bad they don't take edge shots.

https://images.PCGS.com/TrueView/33212632_max.jpg
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at the close-ups, there does seem to be some odd dentil re-ingraving happening at 12 o'clock on the reverse.
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