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1969-S (Lmc) Unsearched BU Coin Roll Quick Question

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United States
270 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  3:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add stevieb to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***

I just purchased a unsearched roll of cents. While looking through them I found a cent with a large fingerprint on it. Either I got scammed or it happens sometimes. Have any of you had a similar experience? The person says that a mint employ or the coin roller person touched the cent. Whose right?
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A fingerprint could happen anytime, even at the mint, in 1969.

One with a fingerprint really can't be used as an indication of searched.
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SilverDollar2017's Avatar
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  5:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


to the CCF!
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United States
270 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevieb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much for your help. The education I get on this site is unsurpassed. Thanks again
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OldMoney's Avatar
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97 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't intend to rain on anyone's parade, but many "unsearched" rolls of old coins for sale have wrappers that post-date the coins by a decade or more. (Striped wrappers were not in use in the 1950's.) The rolls were simply searched early on, and the coins subsequently re-wrapped. Sometimes the coins were searched from a 5,000 coin bag years after the coins were minted, then rolled using the more modern wrappers.

So, while a single fingerprint on a coin in an "unsearched" roll doesn't prove the roll has been searched, chances are it was. I have opened hundreds of "unsearched" rolls. Few were truly unsearched, others definitely were searched. How else would every coin in some rolls exhibit fingerprints? (Yes, that really has happened!)

ebay sellers are notorious for their "unsearched" rolls. Especially the 1955-P, 1958-P, 1969-S cent rolls and the "CC" Morgan dollar Rolls. C'mon, who would really sell a roll of coins with potential value of over a thousand dollars (per coin) for a mere fraction of that?

How about "unsearched" or "sealed" bags?

Back in the early days of ebay, when you could actually see what items individuals had purchased, there was a seller who listed "sealed" Wells Fargo bags of coins. Looking at that person's purchases, lo and behold, they had purchased on ebay, an actual W.F. and Co. lead tag seal mold and faux bags that, incidentally, matched the "Sealed" bags of coins they were then selling for a huge premium! You can bet that seller sealed the bags themselves and the bags were, at best, filled with culls and silver worth only bullion value.

I love roll hunting and cherry-picking as much as anyone else, but I go into every adventure with the hope that the rolls were searched long before RPMs and other varieties became popular. That increases the odds of a successful roll hunt.

When buying "unsearched" coins you should expect the opposite and you will avoid disappointment and perhaps be pleasantly surprised.

Happy Hunting!

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United States
270 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevieb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks old money. That was an answer that gave me lots of info about coin rolling and what to look forward to.
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Steve, I do buy BU rolls, from different venues with ebay being the barrel BOTTOM choice. Most often these older rolls have had at least one previous "handler". Since cents came in bags from the mint, they had to be put into rolls by someone. The Federal system uses distribution centers who may either roll them there or send in bulk to a contract distributor(armored car etc.). Even then banks could roll their own. Those I consider OBW (original bank wrapped) rolls. Can one seller PROVE the provenance(source) as to "unsearchred" coins? Did he purchase as wrapped cents in 1969 or 1970, or can prove this as original source? Now maybe you can see the "dilemma" of unsearched rolls and the scoffing of many of us who have dealt in these. I assume particularly your 1969S roll has been searched at least once for the "BIG ONE", the high value doubled die. If the seller hasn't, then he is an absolute fool! Those rolls with major DDO / DDR have generally been searched two or three times by those seeking even the minor errors. I have three rolls of 1960D's, that I did find @10 RPM's that I advertise as "searched but left these minor RPMs for you!"
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fortcollins's Avatar
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3652 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have several thousand early Lincolns that my parents and I pulled from circulation in the 1960s. Would I sell them on ebay without searching them? Absolutely not. There is far too much upside to search. I am examining every single one of them.

I don't think anybody would sell bulk coins today without searching them, at least for the Red Book variety listings. That said, there are hundreds of possible minor varieties and errors that still exist in the wild. For example, the odds of finding a 1946-S S/D Lincoln are low, but the odds of finding many of the 80+ known RPMs for that date are pretty good. Plugged dates, "BIE" chips, laminations, woodies, and the occasional Cud are still in the wild.

The occasional "big one" still exists in the wild, and that's what inspires the never-ending hunt. Having reasonable expectations for what is available today is a good foundation.

There are still unlisted varieties and errors in the wild. Don't expect to find the Next Big Thing, but the occasional unlisted RPM or minor DDO / DDR hits the radar.

Some dead giveaways that the coins have been searched:
1. The seller has a never-ending supply of the same dates and mints.
2. The seller also has listings for individual collectible varieties or errors.
3. The seller uses ridiculous sales tactics to hype the ordinary: "found in an old barn guarded by a pack of wolves!" or "guaranteed not searched by me" (but probably searched by his brother, uncle, aunt, sister, and grandkids).
4. The seller uses the same photos every week for different lots of the same date and mint or different rolls, but somehow asserts that "these are the actual coins you are buying."
5. The seller "salts" the rolls with an individual desirable end coin, such as a common date Indian cent or Liberty nickel. I can attest that even in the very early 1960s, Indian cents were unicorns and the occasional Liberty nickel was a nearly dateless slug.
6. The rolls of nickels, dimes, quarters, halves, or silver dollars somehow mysteriously always seem to have one obverse and one reverse coin visible on the ends.
7. The rolls are machine wrapped, but somehow one end is loose enough to be peeled back juuuuust far enough to see a date or mint mark.
8. The end coins on a supposedly 60 or 70 year old OBW roll are all mysteriously BU.

Coin roll wrapping devices are cheap, and are marketed by the manufacturers of the coin rolls. Hand-held wrapping devices are readily available for under $20. As others have pointed out upthread, the striped rolls only date to the 1960s. The American Banking Association and Federal Reserve agreed on uniform roll colors by denomination around 1969. (The St. Louis Fed has a lot of documents regarding this on its web site, but the search engine is a *bit* clumsy.)
Edited by fortcollins
04/25/2018 8:21 pm
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fortcollins(lived there in the 70's)

Quote:
8. The end coins on a supposedly 60 or 70 year old OBW roll are all mysteriously BU.


EXCELLENT Point! You are so very correct. I have been buying some rolls from an old collectors estate, and indeed those that were put up years ago ar really known. The paper wrapped are all aged nicely(yeech!). Those in those old nasty Whitman tubes with the slip-on caps...that shrink with age so the coins are stuck, oh yea, but indeed the goodies one can pull out. Now buying a quart jar of "BU 1960's cent" and fining over 23 rolls of 1963P's can be quite disappointing!
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 Posted 04/26/2018  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In 69 the bags were filled by machine by weight. They might be off by a cent, or they might have an extra cent. Which means that they should not have a finger print.

However; and this is a big "however", the Mint did employ sorters to look for errors/problem coins. It is very possible for a sorter to have picked up a coin and then put it back when it checked out.

Now having said that, if you found one coin in a roll it COULD be legit. The rest of the roll should be BU no ifs, ands, or buts. Check the edges. They should be mostly bu with some very even toning from the wrapper. Uneven wear are indicators of fingers handling the coins by the rims.

As far as "unsearched" we have talked about this ad nauseum. What I will say is that I have worked for many years as a professional coin sorter for a couple major dealers/companies.

We buy large lots, including from other dealers. Now, believe it or not we do occasionally get unsearched rolls/bags from dealers. They accumulate them for months or years always planning on searching them.

But I have to tell you that searching 1/2 million cents a year; it takes a special sort of mentality to do it. Occasionally a dealer will just say "To heck it" and wholesale their lots.

In all those years I have found a very small number of keys.

I have found ONE 1914-D

Two 1909-S

One 1909-S VDB

NOT ONE 1931-S.

One 1922 Plain, and a half dozen of the lesser varities.

Now semi Keys, RB Teens and Tweenties, that is a different matter. Lots of them. Including a full red 25-S.

So; are they out there? Sure. Is the casual searcher who goes through a few thousand a year likely to find them? Not so much.


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