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Mystery Piece, Posslbly France

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Valued Member

Canada
77 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  8:59 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add qaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Can anyone identify this piece.
Mystery-Piece,-Posslbly-France
Mystery-Piece,-Posslbly-France
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spru's Avatar
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought was that it is not a real coin, but I'm certainly no expert. It looks to have a date of 1291 AD (MCCLXXXXI).

Although, shouldn't that be MCCXCI?
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
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In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
04/25/2018 11:12 pm
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It seems to be a fantasy piece, for as Spruett pointed out the date is 13th century this is a 13th century coin:
Mystery-Piece,-Posslbly-France Mystery-Piece,-Posslbly-France

And any of the smaller French feudal have the Crusader cross fairly standard. Yours appears cast or pressed, the originals are hammered and not very thick.
Edited by Crazyb0
04/25/2018 11:37 pm
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Purports to be a gold demi-livre tournois of Gaillac dated 1291. Most probably a museum copy or replica - exceedingly rare and found mostly in museum collections.

These were not coins, but units of accounting. They did not circulate -- the sou and denier were the main circulating coinage at the time.

A livre tournois was 20 sols tournois / 240 deniers tournois and in 1291 would have had a weight around 72 grams of silver or about 6 grams of gold.

A demi-live tournois was 10 sols /120 deniers or (later) 1/6 ecu.

The obverse features a left-facing rooster (coq, or Gallus in Latin), a rebus for Gaillac, a city near Toulouse, with an encircled fleur-de-lis to its right.

The obverse legend is MEIA LIVRA DE GALHAC + (=demi-livre of Gaillac in Occitan)

The reverse feature a fleur-de-lis.

The reverse legend is AN DOMINI M:CC:LXXXXI .+ (=the Year of our Lord 1291)
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Canada
77 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2018  06:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add qaz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Paralyse
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2018  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at the rim, is there a seam?
It looks like a tourist token.
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2018  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only similar authentic pieces that are even remotely available on the market from my brief searches would be a couple of demi-livres of Toulouse (meia livra de Tolosa) dated in the 1230s, which will set you back a few hundred euros. Most of the others (livres tournois, livres parisis, etc.) are locked away in museum cabinets and vaults and non-collectible but would bring multiples of that price if one were put up for sale.

The circulating coinage of the era (gold Angels, or more likely silver sous and deniers) is rather more available and can be had for a price, if you are just looking for Gallic and provincial French coinage of the 13th and 14th c.

You can get "museum copies" in gift shops and trinket shops in the museums in Paris and elsewhere that are replica tokens / cast copies, and possibly at the Monnaie de Paris. London's Royal Mint takes it a step further and had or has got sponsored exhibits in museums that let you make your own (modern) medieval English hammered coins or screw-press coins with various dies, if you don't want to just buy a modern copy as a souvenir.
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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