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 Replies: 11 / Views: 4,573 |
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
Possible from the era FRANCOIS IER RESTORING THE LETTERS (01/01/1515-31/03/1547) ecu d'or au soleil Bayonne circa 1500's I found similar fleur de lys, but not with a full fish? on the rreverse Nearest similarity found https://www.cgbfr.com/francois-ier-...49954,a.htmlDiameter 25mm Very thin metal - about .75mm. Gold? Colour is slightly more golden than the image. Has it been cleaned? Should it be cleaned? Approx value?  *** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. *** |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7950 Posts |
Tough to make out the legend in the left photo. Starting from about 5:00 which might be the top of the coin, I think I see + AVEMARIA + RACIA : PLENA which is the first line of the Hail Mary.
Seems odd to have no reverse legends if it is a coin.
I have not seen medieval gold with such a dark patina.
Just initial reactions. Maybe someone else has seem something like this.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7950 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7950 Posts |
I would peg that style of lettering at 14th to 15th century (having just spent some time photographing French coins of that era).
You can see that the As, Cs and Es of the Francois I coin in your link look more modern.
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Pillar of the Community
 New Zealand
526 Posts |
Edited by Bas S Warwick
05/07/2018 12:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7950 Posts |
Strarting in the mid-14th century, the the image of a dolphin in heraldry relates to the heir apparent to be King of France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dauphin_of_France. Here it is on a 14th century French coin with gothic lettering like on yours, though the content of the legend is completely different.  On the forum thread referenced previously, there was this comment: Quote:
Yep, it's a jeton, or counting token. The crown on the obverse design is loosely based on the mediaeval coinage of Bohemia and Poland, while the ornate cross with fleur-de-lys tips is more French in inspiration linked to this photo:  So, one possibility is that you have another AVE MARIA jeton like the one pictured there, but the "dauphin" symbol has replaced the crown. Maybe someone who is expert in medieval French coins out here can comment on the possibility that you have a Francois I gold coin. Edited by tdziemia
05/07/2018 4:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
I sent the image to a numismatist in France who says it is a brass token from Dauphine. And apparently this type of token is very common, although I'm finding it hard to get any exact information. He didn't mention a year, so still need to try to discover that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7950 Posts |
Token makes sense (no lettering on the reverse, no sovereign's name or mint name on either side).
Brass makes sense, as I have never seen gold age like that.
I am guessing 1300-1450 on the approximate date based on the lettering style. If it can be narrowed further, great!
It's a very interesting (and old!) piece.
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Moderator
 United States
34419 Posts |
@BSW, you might try looking here: https://www.cgb.fr/archive,jetons.htmlOne quick thought is that this floriated cross with the four annulets clustered in the center and with fleur de lis in each quarter is a bit similar to a Liard minted for Charles VIII (1483-1498 AD). It is a long shot to be sure, but I would start my searching in his reign. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7950 Posts |
You will be able to find a lot of medieval silver coins with the dolphin and floriated cross. This one also shows up on cgb: https://www.cgb.fr/dauphine-dauphin...91540,a.htmlHowever, these have the sovereign's name on the same side as the fish, and the location on the side with the cross. For instance, the one you've linked says COMES ALBONIS (County of Albon) around the cross. On the other hand, one can also find lots of medieval brass or copper tokens (I don't think coins were being made of either brass or copper in 14th or 15th c. France) with exactly the same reverse design as yours, but not with a dolphin on the front (but with the same obverse lettering). Here is another  I think this is why your French contact says it is a medieval token, and I think that's right (even if we can't find your exact one). Edited by tdziemia
05/08/2018 07:45 am
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
526 Posts |
@tdziemia
Many thanks for the additional info
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Replies: 11 / Views: 4,573 |
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Posted 05/06/2018 7:41 pm
