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Spanish Main

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New Member

United States
26 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2008  12:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add djf1326invest to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello folks,

Once again to come to you experts with my quondry.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of Spanish Main coins &/or US silver dollars making it to China; and being engraved also in Chinese? I have seen several in Shanghai and in Manila, but have never seen any information about them. PCGS and NGC have not seen one before, but state it could be possible. So, if anyone has seen one, could you also tell me with the addition of the Chinese engraving, does it increase the value (because it is so rare)or does it drop the value?

Thanks for all.

GOD Bless
David
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2008  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Engraving? It just means damage and there is no extra premium for it, in fact a major loss. Chances are if you are buying it in China, there is a huge flood of counterfeits there so don't bother unless you really know what you are getting.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Pillar of the Community
Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2008  02:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day,
when you say "engraving", I wonder if you are referring to "chopmarks", which are often Chinese characters. I haven't seen a lot of them, but they've all been struck, as with a hammer striking a die.
Chopmarks are common on silver coins: Spanish dollars certainly; British Crowns occasionally. I don't collect American dollars, so I haven't noticed any.
Peter
New Member
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2008  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add djf1326invest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Folks,

Actually, the coins ARE real, that have been verified. They are 1789 Carlos III (Mexico City Mint) 8 Reales & 1876 Trade dollar (USA). The "engravings" or "chopmarks" are Chinese characters "punched" into the surface of the coin. I have had the "chopmarks" analyzed.
They are written in the form of "old Chinese script". Possibly from an importer/exporter. This was before China had any formal banking system. I do know that Large ship builders and importers/exporters would put these marks into the coins in order to understand them when counting them.

Unfortunately, I am not able to upload any photos. This system will not let me upload.

Thanks folks for your advice.

GOD Bless

David



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ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2008  05:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are many, many coins that made it to China, and were chopped with the Chinese chopmarks. To them, chopmarks were their version of coin grading! Many unscrupulous coin traders would use counterfeit or base metal coins, instead of the silver rounds the Chinese wanted. Each individual merchant had a process by which he would grade the silver content in each coin. When he was satisfied that the coin stood up to his standards, he would stamp it with his 'signature', the Chinese characters we call Chopmarks today.

There are two types of Chopmarks. Type 1 marks are small and do less damage to the surface of a coin. Type 2 marks are large, and can often cover the surface of a coin until the coin literally falls to pieces!

Any coin which circulated in China can have chopmarks on it. Silver, gold, or copper coins were traded, though the large trade silver coins were by far most prevalent. Many countries issued silver Trade dollars, expressly for the purpose of shipping to trade in China. The US Trade dollar, so unpopular here at home, is one good example.

The Spanish 8 Reales, and after Mexico declared independence the Mexico 8 Reales Cap & Rays coins were preferred by the Chinese merchants.

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