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 Replies: 33 / Views: 6,533 |
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Press Manager
 United States
1420 Posts |
An extremely rare 1916 Standing Liberty quarter pattern was recently certified by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and will soon be heading to auction. The coin, graded PF61, is only the second specimen known to exist. The proof coin was formerly graded and slabbed by another third-party coin grading company as a regular 1916 Standing Liberty quarter - itself a series rare key date - but was identified by a numismatist at Heritage Auctions as something rarer still than an "ordinary" 1916 Standing quarter. The coin was subsequently submitted to NGC, where the coin was confirmed to be the rare pattern.  Read the entire article |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I'd like to know who dropped the ball on this originally.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
NGC + Heritage = A lot more $. I hope the Heritage finder got a great bonus  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1695 Posts |
There is a story lurking here: "The piece was first submitted to PCGS by Heritage and returned to the auction house by PCGS in a holder with a label that identified it as Genuine, Uncirculated Details, Repaired, without attribution as a pattern" https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...ributed.html |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Thanks for the article and additional information. My birthday happens to be the same date this will be auctioned. Do you think I can get my wife to win it as a birthday present?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1695 Posts |
I wonder if the controversies over the coin will affect the auction price. PCGS reportedly gives it a details grade, NCG identifies it as a proof, and the expert quoted in the article says it is not a proof.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Quote:
Posted - Today :12M ago
Thanks for the article and additional information. My birthday happens to be the same date this will be auctioned.
Do you think I can get my wife to win it as a birthday present? sure , just tell her she can put it on charge and have 30 years to pay it off .  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
Very interesting article. Here is a graphic showing the differences the article mentions. Also pointed out is the wider rim of the pattern.  |
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Forum Dad
United States
24154 Posts |
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sure , just tell her she can put it on charge and have 30 years to pay it off . Just not Citibank. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I wonder if the controversies over the coin will affect the auction price. PCGS reportedly gives it a details grade, NCG identifies it as a proof, and the expert quoted in the article says it is not a proof. The "expert" they quoted won't have any impact on the price at all. The discrepancy maybe but probably not. Bidders will do extra due dilligence with it and those that think NGC got it wrong will stay away and those that think they got it right will go hard if they want it. There's a strong chance it gets crossed back over after being won anyway. |
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Moderator
United States
188213 Posts |
Very interesting.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
Quote:
"The piece was first submitted to PCGS by Heritage and returned to the auction house by PCGS in a holder with a label that identified it as Genuine, Uncirculated Details, Repaired, without attribution as a pattern" Quote:
There's a strong chance it gets crossed back over after being won anyway. Interesting thought. But I don't understand why anyone would want a coin already labeled by NGC graders as a proof to send it to the company whose three graders evaluating this coin totally missed seeing what they were looking at - a rare pattern coin - in the first place. Couldn't there also be a chance the PCGS graders would stick to their guns anyway and relabel it as before?  Of course PCGS might just decide they made a mistake and label it for what it is. Another thing: I can see how, let's say, a Morgan dollar expert (for example) might not see the obvious extra leaves, but a (three!) professional grader(s)?  Edited by Earle42
07/09/2018 5:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
824 Posts |
Quote:Of course PCGS might just decide they made a mistake and label it for what it is. Another thing: I can see how, let's say, a Morgan dollar expert (for example) might not see the obvious extra leaves, but a (three!) professional grader(s)? I have sent quite a few coins to PCGS lately, actually have 20 there that should have been completed last week but still waiting, and I am losing faith in them. I have sent coins to both NGC and PCGS and it seems like they do not have the time to really look at each coin. The grades on some that I am getting are just not even close and they have missed varieties as well. I have had to go back and fight with each of them and prove they were wrong before they would correct them. I feel like they have too many new people not trained well enough and too many coins to grade to get it right all the time. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
I can see near future there would be a article on how PCGS missed in attributing a pattern piece, and more collectors will be submitting their coins to NGC for grading. This is a major hiccup for PCGS not spotting it.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
But I don't understand why anyone would want a coin already labeled by NGC graders as a proof to send it to the company whose three graders evaluating this coin totally missed seeing what they were looking at - a rare pattern coin - in the first place. It was missed by everyone for a 100 years. it wasn't just PCGS nor was that the first time it was sold or sold at auction. When you look through it Heritage missed it the first time too, it just happened to get in front of the right person who noticed it. As for why, a lot of the big time coins NGC brags about end up getting crossed when they are won. It happened with the Paquet gold double eagle, the Confederate half and cent ect. There's two potential buyers I can think of that if they want it they will win it and both would almost certainly try and cross it if they win. Quote:
Couldn't there also be a chance the PCGS graders would stick to their guns anyway and relabel it as before?
Not on that one. That's going to be a 6/7 figure coin. It won't get cracked and submitted raw. It would only be removed from the holder if they agreed it was a pattern. They could decline to cross it but there's almost no chance someone will crack it out to submit raw. It should cross I would think unless a is it a pattern or isn't it dispute arises, the grade doesn't matter for something like that so that shouldn't be an issue. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Edited by oih82w8
07/10/2018 1:31 pm
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Replies: 33 / Views: 6,533 |
Posted 07/08/2018 11:43 am
