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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,851 |
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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts |
OK all you coins dudes/dudettes including grading services people—want to play devels advocate and sorry if brought up before—i can understand chemical cleaning but wiping coins as a form of cleaning—take old gold AU or less coins earlier times and you have a gold coin say greater than $3-thats alot of money for pocket change so you store it in cloth or even maybe burlap and because gold is delicate it scratches it all up—i would imagine alot of coins may be stored like this—how can you say this did not happen and was cleaned by wiping?
A newbie with alot time on my hands—
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Since scratches from cloth are random whereas scratches from cleaning are going in same directions and deep.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Disturbance in the fields of the coin is usually the best area to examine to detect cleaning or rubbing.
Parallel scratches indicates physical rubbing. This can be minor or extremely bad depending on the type of cloth or other cleaning device that is used. The worst are coins that have had brillo pads, or other wire pads that destroys almost all of the numismatic value of a coin.
Cross scratches that don't all follow parallel lines may also be from a cloth or even a cotton ball. These can be destructive to the numismatic value as well. I've bought and emptied dozens of estate safes with coins,and only once or twice were coins in any kind of sack. Even if they were those coins didn't get moved around very much as proof coins still came out without field disturbance.
Dipping removes a thin layer of metal from the surface of a Coin. Each time it's dipped or if it's left in the dip too long you lose almost all of the luster of the coin. Making it drab and unappealing.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9864 Posts |
8 Quote:
newbie with alot time on my hands— Not enough time actually, in less than five minutes you could have found online that from PCGS such scratches as you describe are acceptable and that dipping is not cleaning. I won't provide links since you have so much time available to find this info.   "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I would think it makes no difference. Sort of like asking is there a difference in dents in you cars fender from hitting another car, lamp post, truck, brick wall, etc. A dent is a dent. A scratch is a scratch.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9864 Posts |
A coin is not a car.
A scratch is not a scratch.
According to PCGS some types of scratches are acceptable.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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According to PCGS some types of scratches are acceptable. Yet people don't buy them. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9864 Posts |
When they say some scratches are acceptable they mean that scratches don't always earn a coin "Details" grading.
A coin with old light scratches as those described by the OP may merit a straight grade.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
DBM that quote from the PCGS website that dipping is not considered cleaning is very misleading of you. They were referring to a very specific example of abrasive cleaning and did not advocate dipping at all unless a coin exhibited very dark, ugly toning or to restore surfaces somehow. They also said that dipping is not considered coin doctoring, insomuch, as doctoring was meant to deceive the collector whereas dipping is obvious.
However, they go to great lengths to advocate that natural, undipped surfaces are preferred by the majority of seasoned collectors and will tend to command higher prices in general. Perhaps you should change your signature line to actually help beginners and newbies by saying "natural, undipped surfaces are preferred over dipped surfaces"
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Perhaps you should change your signature line to actually help beginners and newbies by saying "natural, undipped surfaces are preferred over dipped surfaces" That's not entirely true. It all depends on the coins and grade ranges you are talking about. Many toned coins are super ugly hence they get dipped or a nice coin that gets some spots ect. You can't actually tell when a coin has been dipped properly, only when it's messed up or a bad candidate was used and coins get dipped because collectors like the mint fresh look and pay more for it. If they didn't coins would never get dipped. Now all that said, the majority of people should never go near dip as they would do more harm than good with it |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
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Many toned coins are super ugly hence they get dipped or a nice coin that gets some spots ect.
You can't actually tell when a coin has been dipped properly, only when it's messed up or a bad candidate was used and coins get dipped because collectors like the mint fresh look and pay more for it. If they didn't coins would never get dipped. @baseball: which dipping agents are you referring to? I'm sure you have experience at it and I have some coins I purchased under spot that I wouldn't mind experimenting with. Just curious which chemicals you recommend and length of time for the dip. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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I'm sure you have experience at it and I have some coins I purchased under spot that I wouldn't mind experimenting with. Just curious which chemicals you recommend and length of time for the dip. Dipping is rather vague terminology. Some people consider just dipping in Acetone a dip. Some think of other chemical dipping such as jewelry cleaners. Or even Olive Oils, Tomato Juice, Lemon Juice, Lacquer thinners, battery acid, Vinegar, etc. as just dipping. Then there are all those many substances sold on the internet as coin cleaners. That word Dipping is just to vague. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
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That's not entirely true. It all depends on the coins and grade ranges you are talking about. Many toned coins are super ugly hence they get dipped or a nice coin that gets some spots ect. I agree my comment should not be taken as a blanket statement just like DBM's statement that PCGS says dipping is not cleaning should not be taken as a blanket statement either. There are many more factors to consider. To justcarl's point regarding dipping as a vague term. I'm using it in a context like moxking which is like a chemical dipping like a jewelry cleaner. I think most of us that have been doing this for awhile consider the term dipping in that same context but, justcarl, is correct that it should be clarified. Just like DBM's statement and signature line. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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@baseball: which dipping agents are you referring to? e-z-est is the most popular and if you ask a 100 people you may get a 100 different answers for what concentration to use for what length. Most likely different variations do work better for different coins. Playing around with it is really the best way to get a handle on it as the best people at doing it really don't like giving their secrets away to us. I do know someone who swears by an all natural dip but would have to go try and dig up exactly what it was. Something about being an old photo processing formula with like lemon juice and citric acid or something like that. I may be completely wrong on those ingredients as I never tried it but it sounded interesting and seemed to be a nice intermediate strength between something weak like MS 70 and something strong like dip. Quote:
'm using it in a context like moxking which is like a chemical dipping like a jewelry cleaner. I think most of us that have been doing this for awhile consider the term dipping in that same context That's what I assumed as well. Whenever I see dip I always assume something stronger than acetone/MS70 type things. |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,851 |
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Posted 07/07/2018 12:38 pm
