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Confessions Of A VAM-Aholic

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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  1:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am a VAMaholic (first step confess your sins). I started down this path approximately one year ago at the urging and encouragement of SuperDave and Bryan. I do not regret that encouragement. Thanks guys!

Definition: [ VAM] Acronym derived from Van Allen/Mallis (the two pioneers who began this in 1969) and used to describe the die pairs used in minting Morgan/Peace silver dollars. Every Morgan/Peace dollar is a VAM. Most are very common and a select few are major rarities. (current listing at http://www.vamworld.com/Morgan+VAMs+By+Date)

Definition: [VAMaholic] One who spends nearly every waking moment at home dialed into ebay Morgan dollar listings; visits every coin show within a hundred miles armed with his/her quick reference book and 10x loupe; and visits brick and mortar shops on a regular basis armed with the reference and loupe.

When I began this journey I was completely ignorant of VAMs. I had heard the term but did not understand it. Then I began to realize there was a realistic opportunity to obtain Morgan/Peace rareties for my collection at reasonable prices because there are more VAM-ignorant sellers/collectors than there are VAM enthusiasts. I spent a lot of time on the linked VAM page. I identified some key VAMs and downloaded pics and descriptions, then created a personal reference book that I keep by my side when I search. It took a little time at first, but now I'm on cruise-control. My first passion was the 1878-P VAMs. These contain the highest density of rarities and folks seem unable/unwilling to take the effort to learn how to identify them. Next was the Super CD's (clashed dies) available on numerous dates/mints. And finally any VAM with a 6+ rarity and/or 5+ interest factor (from the link). From these I learned to focus on the "pick-up points or PUPS" on certain dates/mints. Now, when I look at an 1887-P I focus on the reverse "D" in Dollar looking for that "Donkey Tail"; an oval 'O' on an 1888-O; eye spikes and obverse die breaks on an 8TF 1878; a "funky feather" on the reverse of an 1878-S; and the list goes on.

Here's what I've acquired in the past year:
1878 8TF VAMs: VAM 9 (the first Morgan minted on Mar 11, 1878), VAM 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 14.1, 14.2, 14.3, and 23
1878 7/8TF VAMs: 31, 33, 36, 40
1878 7TF (B1 Rev-Long Nock): 80, 82, 84
1878 7TF (Rev of 78): 141, 162
1878 7TF (Rev of 79): 203
1878-S: VAM 36 (Dragon scales)
1880-P: VAM 6
1880-O: VAM 48 (Hangnail)
1886-P: VAM 1C
1888-O: VAM 21
1891-O: VAM 1A
1921-D: VAMs 1B1,1F, 1G, 1I and 6A

Peace VAMs
1925-P: VAM 5 (Missing Ray)
1926-S: VAM 4 (Extra Berry Reverse)
1934-D: VAM 3 (DDO, large D reverse)

I've also been within striking distance on the following VAMs, but was outbid or unable to bid: 1878 8TF VAM 14.8, 14.11 (posted on the variety thread after the ebay seller ended the auction early), 1888-O VAM 4 (Hot Lips), 1888-O VAM 24, and many others of lesser importance.

I post this here to possibly pique the interest of other Morgan/Peace dollar collectors who may be on the fence concerning VAMs. Make the leap ... it's good, clean fun and could be richly rewarding. If you have any questions on my "technique" sound off and I will gladly divulge how I do it.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1231 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been interested in getting a book on VAM's but haven't done it yet. I have about 40 raw Morgans that I haven't looked at in years. At the time I got them, I had never even heard of VAM.
Valued Member
Pennypusher's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pennypusher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got my first Morgan VAM book from the author himself about 6 months ago, he even signed it for me! -PP
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It just keeps getting better ... I just scored a 1934-D VAM 4 for $22.
New Member
b.j.'s Avatar
United States
19 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2008  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add b.j. to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was able to cherrypick an 1888-O (hotlips) for about $15.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2008  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had never heard the term VAM either until I purchased a 1878 Morgan on in a NGC slab with the words VAM-84 on the label and then I did a little reading and found this forum with a question about a 1878 7/8 TF Morgan I had acquired a few months earlier, luckily for me SuperDave saw my post and was very helpful even though my picture taking skills was minimal and ignorance was at a all time maximum. Anyway from that moment on I was hooked, SuperDave specialized in 1921 Morgan VAMs so I had a few 1878 Morgans and figured since he was collecting the last date of the Morgan VAMs I would start with the first year of mintage, not knowing at the time there were 8TF,7/8TF and 7TF not to mention B1 Reverse 7TF's and I read all I could find and started watching what others were collecting in the 1878 year and noticed one section was being pretty much unnoticed by most collectors, the B1 Reverse 7TF Morgans so I started there. About 6 months later they started to grow in popularity but by that time I had already accumulated one of each B1 Reverse except one and all in the highest grade that had been graded by PCGS or NGC at the time (most were already graded since my grading skills were lacking but were unattributed), I finally found the last piece I needed to finish up the set and had the #1 B1 Reverse set on NGC's registry but then fell on hard times and had to sell a few of them but have acquired all of the ones I sold off again now (even though some aren't graded by NGC or PCGS yet) and even though I haven't been actively buying them I can't seem to go on ebay without checking all the 1878 Morgans for that unattributed B1 Reverse in a PCGS or NGC slab or even raw. It just gets in your blood and becomes as natural as breathing
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2008  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seated Nut:

Move over- You got company! Not as long as you- maybe around 9 months
but during this time I've had 2 Morgans personally attributed by Mr Lee and Mr Van Allen for which I was very thrilled about!

Same here-started out with "What the H*** is a VAM?"
My thanks goes out to NGiles!- Got me started in the right direction and eventually got hooked big time

Now- I'm also constantly on E-Bay looking at Morgan's- hoping for a nice VAM to come up.

Some Vams I have been able to identify that I now have are:

1882P VAM 1D3
1883P VAM 1B
1883O VAM 56 -(Attributed by Mr Jack Lee)
1884S VAM 4C
1886O VAM 2
1897S VAM 3
1897S VAM 4
1921P VAM 1G - (Attributed by Mr Leroy Van Allen)
1921P VAM 3H
1921D VAM 1P

Not a big list, but you got to start somewhere, and I'm still looking for that elusive 99 Wide AM cent in between the Morgan VAM search.



See you over on E-BAY and don't out-bid me




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sfwusc's Avatar
United States
615 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2008  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sfwusc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That stupid 99 Wide AM is hard to find :) I have found two 98s and one 00s no 99.

-SWUSC
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malissadawn's Avatar
Canada
1931 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  01:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add malissadawn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well..........if you really love this vamming thing, how about you pop on over to my 1878 Morgan dollar post and tell me if you see anything? I tried reading the lists on a site someone left me the link to but not all of the vams have pictures which makes me not sure what I have. Just an idea in case of boredom of VAM withdrawl syptoms. lol
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  01:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's why its also the most expensive of the three! Less means more. ($)

I WILL FIND ONE!!!
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
chuckster125,

Congratulations! Addicting isn't it? Don't worry about me competing with you for VAMs on ebay, unless you move to 1878, 1880, 1887, 1888, 1891, or 1921-D. These are the dates I focus on.

And for Malissadawn ... haven't you figured that one out yet? If I get a chance, I'll look at your enlarged pics tonight and give it a try. I couldn't last nite cuz grandson paid a surprise visit.
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dave!

Just got a 1921d in that I posted - turns out to be a 1921D -Vam1P- nice coin-I picked it up along with a 1921S on ebay the end of June. (both coins together)for $33.00

The 21 S might end up being something special- not sure yet- I have it posted now- strange S mintmark

If you get a chance, take a look at my post- appreciate your thoughts on it.

Chuck.
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chuckster 125's Avatar
United States
4113 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuckster 125 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Malissadawn:

Tried to match your coin last night - unable to figure it out right now based on your pics. Its really hard trying to pin it down when you can't get up real close on the coin itself to try and match any die chips/gouges /minute doubling etc just based on pictures.

I'll see if I can get your pics enlarged for a better shot at it later tonight.

Chuck.
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Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, I'm not sure if we've already communicated about this (and I apologize if we did), but do you have any idea of a reasonable valuation for an MS60 (basically BU) 1882-O VAM 38A? There's very little pricing info out there about it. I have some and need to know how to price them. I see an AU on ebay for sale for about $180 and another VAM guy mentioned the VAM book states BU = $500. However, I've never actually seen a real sales record for this coin. It's an R6 with low interest...which is weird since the die breaks are quite blatant and easy to see. How would you price one...i.e. what premium would you give it that would be reasonable and make the coin saleable?
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bruce,

No we haven't discussed this one. It is an interesting VAM, but I haven't seen any listed to give you an idea of value. As you probably know, the VAMLink price guides only cover 1878 8TF, 7/8 TF, B-1 Rev, 79S Rev of 78 and Hot 50. I ran a search VAMQuest completed auctions and also drew a blank. You might check with the guys on CU to see if any of them have sold or bought a VAM 38A.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2008  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another possibility for the VAM-38A is the discussion board at VAMworld itself - some real heavyweights read it regularly, including ANACS' VAM attributor (whose name escapes me). Somebody there should have an idea, but remember it'll only be an idea until someone actually sells one.

Not being on any specialized "hit list" will work against it, I fear.
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