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1972 LMC DDO 005 Or!

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 Posted 07/26/2018  06:55 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Aziz_R to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My eyes start playing
couldn't compare anymore. Your help needed

1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!

1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  07:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just checked CC's site and yours is not 005.
John1
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you're seeing that common Master Die Doubling for that year.
From doubleddie.com:


Quote:
1972 1¢ WMDO-001 Doubled Master Die

Description: An extremely close Class I CW spread shows on the letters of LIBERTY, IGWT, and the horizontal bar of the 2 in the date. On early die state specimens the E of WE appears to show tripling suggesting a CCW spread in addition to the CW spread.

Die Markers: Obverse: The affected master die shows a short die gouge extending eastward inside the upper S of TRUST. Other obverse die markers will vary with the different working dies that were affected. Reverse: Die markers will vary with the different working dies that were affected.

Submitted By: John A. Wexler

Cross References: CONECA: MD-1-O-I-CW+II-C (formerly listed as MD-5-O-I-CW+II-C), Crawford: CDDO-005 (MD)

Values: No extra value!

Comments: Shortly after the various obverse doubled die cent varieties were produced that year, the Lincoln Cent master die for 1972 failed and a new one had to be produced. Clearly the Mint was having problems that year with the hubbing process as was evidenced by the many doubled die varieties produced. Those problems carried over to the second master die that was produced for the Lincoln cents that year. That second master die was produced with minor doubling. It is estimated that the doubled master die was created somewhere around April or May of 1972. All of the Lincoln cents struck by working dies that descended from the doubled master die show this minor doubling. The doubling can be seen on the letters of IGWT, the letters of LIBERTY, and very slightly on the date. Since 60% to 70% of all Lincoln cents for 1972 show this doubling, it is far too common to have any value. This includes 1972 D-Mint, S-Mint, and proof coins produced that year. Newer doubled die collectors should be very careful if responding to ads for 1972 doubled die Lincoln cents. There are individuals out there trying to sell specimens of this doubled master die for premiums far in excess of what they should be. You should not be paying more than the normal numismatic value of a 1972 cent for 1972 cents with this master die doubling. Those trying to sell them to unsuspecting buyers advertise them as "genuine doubled dies" which they are. The ads are truthful in that respect, but they fail to tell you that it is a specimen of the doubled master die that can easily be found without paying a premium for it. Back when they were first listed they were assigned a listing number of 1972 1¢ MD-5-O-I+II. Those trying to sell them at a premium identify them as "5-O-I+II" but they leave off the master die indicator "MD." If you are fairly new to doubled die collecting, don't let yourself fall victim to these scams. If you would like to add a specimen of the doubled master die to your collection for educational purposes, go out and look for them yourself. Since the majority of 1972 cents show this doubling, you should easily find one for the cost of a "regular" 1972 Lincoln Cent.
Errers and Varietys.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not seeing master die doubling on this one. The MDD is a lot stronger. But what I am seeing on this in not hub doubling as it doesn't imitate the design. The items you are seeing are very minor. You have the eye to find a doubled die, but a doubled die is a lot easier to see, if it were on the coin you are looking at. Something I made as an image helps others to find 1972 doubled die is this image:
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
It helps us to see that the '9' on the date of a doubled die is usually affected. How? During the die creation process, the curve of the upper and mid loop are affected. (see images again) note the shape of a normal cent for this year. Then note at 10:00 on the inside loo[ the curve is altered. Then look back again at the normal coins '9'. The change is not there. So look this area first on the 1972 cents and that will speed up your search for doubled dies this year. I posted this a while back and some of the new ones may not have seen it yet. But when I do post it, all of a sudden a whole lot more DDOs are found. So copy this image and they to see the affect on the '9' when searching the 1972 cents.
CoopHome : 1972 DDO 9
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 Posted 07/26/2018  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aziz_R to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you John1, E-n-V & Coop. Actually I can not tell what I think, It is confused. I took some extra photos:


1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
Edited by Aziz_R
07/26/2018 3:02 pm
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of your doubled die will show spread in the centers of the devices. Often people look for something on a coin, that is not there. If would jump right out at you from the first glance.
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
Note the shape of the '9' on this image? The spread on the 2. There is no need to look at the outside edges of devices. If the hub doubling isn't on the center of the device, you looking to hard for something that is not there.
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
Where do you find the spread? Not on the edges of the devices, in the center of the devices. When this happens the devices are widened.
On the DDO-001-008 how do you tell the differences. Some dies look alike. But they are different because of the location of the hub doubling on the die:
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!
So when you look at these images, there are two different die numbers assigned to each die. They look so same, but they are not. One is stronger, one is weaker. The hub doubling is on different places. Again note, this is not a striking issue, but the hub doubling is on the die. Thus the term "Doubled Die" because it is on the die.
But back to the subject at hand. "Spread." Spread is what shows the die is doubled. The devices are enlarged. Why Because of the spread on the device. You know that mark in the center of the devices that makes the devices enlarged. That is what to look for. Don't waste your time looking at the edges of the devices. all you will find there is where the machine damaged the fresh struck devices. Sometimes strong other time very weak as on the last set of images you just posted. You are looking at the lines/edges of the devices. All you will find there is Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration. Look at the centers of the devices. Hope this helps. I could keep doing this all day. But just visualize what I'm describing on these images I posted and see if it helps you understand better?
CoopHome : 1972 Doubled dies spread

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 Posted 07/26/2018  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aziz_R to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really appreciate your generosity. Always not just giving answer, but give explanations. And I thank you.

I always hair "look to the spread in the center" and I translate it but couldn't understand it. Does it mean the separation between devices?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spread between the hubbings of the die when it was created. Years ago they had a lot longer process to make dies, If the hub was sightly rotated just a bit it created a doubled die. Or if the hub was warped from use, it would create a doubled die. If the same hub was not exact the same each time, you could end up with a doubled die, tripled die or quadrupled die. Every thing had to happen just so or a slight, mild, medium or a strong doubled die could happen. It it did, they they would scrap it. But they were to check to see if it was correct and sometimes they missed the doubled and it it made a full run of coins and never detected. So it is in the die creation that doubled die are made.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aziz_R,
Those are some nice clear photos
John1
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 Posted 07/26/2018  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aziz_R to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thank you Coop. welcome John1 :)
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Waynoah83's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2018  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waynoah83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with John1, def nice pics. What is the setup you are using to take your pics? Also, is it an off center strike? I don't know if it's the angle or lighting but the pic of GOD looks like there is no rim above the coin.
Edited by Waynoah83
07/26/2018 7:18 pm
Valued Member
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 Posted 07/26/2018  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aziz_R to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Waynoah83, no it is not Off Center Strike.

I bought a digital usb microscope from Amazon. I couldn't use the software in its CD, but I used Windows Camera software and it works for me. the problem with it, it show all the small details which make it hard to see while the coin shining. It comes with 8 LED lights. here the photo:

1972-LMC-DDO-005-Or!

and here is its link: https://amzn.to/2JVPPHD
there are many kinds like this, some are same price and some higher price. I suggest read reviews before you buy one :)
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gfymf667's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2018  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gfymf667 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you coin comm. I think I have a grasp. It's Murphy's law sometimes too!but a 2nd. Pair of eyes are always welcome.
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 Posted 11/02/2018  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gfymf667 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sometimes I prefer ti lwave it to people who have walked the walk not just talked the talk;)
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 11/03/2018  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you shut off the light on the scope? Most times they have multiple lights and the drowns the images on micro photos. Best to have just one light source. That way you get light and shadows. The light falling over a device will show you what is there. To many lights and it creates it own corners around devices and make you think there is something there, but really isn't. Also a draw back on cheap scopes is the plastic lens in them. They are very poor. I don't know why someone who is making these doesn't give an option to get a glass lens on the scope. That would fix the biggest draw back of the cheaper scopes.
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