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How Accurate Are PCGS True Views/Ngc's Photovision?

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Steelers72's Avatar
United States
1448 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2018  10:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Steelers72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Not meant to stir the pot, but I have come across many true views and most of the time either the coin looks better in hand or the coin looks better in the True Views. Sometimes, a True View is the only photo provided from a seller.

What is your opinion on True Views? Are they really a true view on your opinion? NGC now offers a photo service similar to PCGS's True Views called NGC PhotoVision. What are your experiences - both positive and/or negative?



An example I have below of a PCGS True View compared to a slab picture

How-Accurate-Are-PCGS-True-Views/Ngc’s-Photovision?


How-Accurate-Are-PCGS-True-Views/Ngc’s-Photovision?
How-Accurate-Are-PCGS-True-Views/Ngc’s-Photovision?

Edited by Steelers72
08/22/2018 10:42 am
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2018  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And this is the reason I refer to trueviews as glamour shots. They bring out the absolute best (possible?) look of a coin.
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Alpha2814's Avatar
United States
2023 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2018  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any coin is going to look better either in-hand or in a photo. That's all in the lighting and the angle of view.

As for "accuracy", I consider TrueView as a primary source to see the true extent of different degrees of toning -- in the OP example, the darker shade to the right on the obverse and the bluish effect below the date and above the eagle. There are also a couple of spots (to the right of her knee and below the beak) that I would not expect to see in seller photos.

When I'm examining a piece for sale online, TrueView is one of the first things I look for, just for these reasons. It can also serve as a test of authenticity of the coin and trust in the seller -- if the coin in question does not seem to have the same markers in TrueView or the seller's own photos are obviously hiding spots or hits, I'm less inclined to deal with that seller.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2018  12:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What is your opinion on True Views? Are they really a true view on your opinion?


Not every trueview is perfect or even great, but overall they're good and a good service. They're pretty consistent and fairly easy to read as they have a couple different styles. The one you posted you can tell it's emphasizing the color a little bit and the surface marks instead of the luster. Some others show the luster really well and are basically what a coin will look like.

Some coins are harder than others to picture and whether it is an older trueview or a newer one can make a difference for quality as they have adjusted over the years from experience, but overall it's a good service. They don't juice them or anything, so if it's there if you match their lighting you can make a coin look that way.

The true view staff for them is very easy to reach and does what they can to please a submitter if they aren't happy with the picture chosen as they generally have a couple pictures of each coin


Quote:
An example I have below of a PCGS True View compared to a slab picture


It'll likely look between the two. The slab picture doesn't have enough light and the trueview is showing the color hues in the toning.

Also though with color just because it doesn't match doesn't mean the PCGS photo was off, the color may have changed over time ect from the time the picture was taken.
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2018  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a night and day comparison in TrueViews favor, IMO.
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 08/24/2018  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The true views are better than the photos from the typical internet seller.
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mamastinky's Avatar
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2018  08:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Steelers72, since you brought it up, here is my well-formed and oft-expressed opinion on the subject:

Basically anybody who posits that PCGS TrueView photos are juiced honestly knows very little about coin photography. Phil is very skilled, and that has nothing to do with opinion. I think that the whole product is clever and classy: "True, View." It is obvious this label was carefully chosen, and is also appropriate. It is apparent to me that the goal is to capture as much of the surface as possible in the truest color of the surface. Obvious challenges are presented in doing this, since you must have shadow if not highlights. What I expect seems unnatural to people about these photos is that they are pictures of metal without the shiny "hot" white highlights. This is probably the most notable aspect of TrueView photography that enables the photos to capture such a high percentage of the surface color still visible. Go ahead, try snapping a pic of any coin you want without those reflections. I'll wait. I can't believe that so many people don't find it obvious that it is a product intended for use as a tool for collectors for many years to come: high-resolution views of the condition of the coin's surfaces regarding color and topography. Making a coin look pretty is not the goal in this case.

There is no version of a coin portrait that can portray what your first impression of the coin is "in-hand." There are literally hundreds or more versions of that look. It is different for each person. That cannot, therefore, be the goal, am I right?

Standards in coin photography with regard to documentation as well as marketing need to be upheld. Any coin photographer with a goal toward honesty is helping to improve the hobby.
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2018  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What I expect seems unnatural to people about these photos is that they are pictures of metal without the shiny "hot" white highlights. This is probably the most notable aspect of TrueView photography that enables the photos to capture such a high percentage of the surface color still visible. Go ahead, try snapping a pic of any coin you want without those reflections. I'll wait.


Here is the True View and a photo of the obverse that I use in my photo album because my photo looks more like the coin in hand. That hot spot can been seen in the right hand cornor. The hot spot can be cropped out of the image. I purchased this coin from the True View image and I was not disappointed based on the True View image. The True View was a fair representation of this coin.

How-Accurate-Are-PCGS-True-Views/Ngc’s-Photovision?
How-Accurate-Are-PCGS-True-Views/Ngc’s-Photovision?
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mamastinky's Avatar
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2018  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here is the True View and a photo of the obverse that I use in my photo album because my photo looks more like the coin in hand.


Agreed. That is actually a very pretty representation.

What I meant by "hot spots" was the shiny areas of the metal where the light is most reflective in the photo. All of those white highlights on Liberty technically cover up or block the view of the surfaces beneath. However, your example is a perfect case-in-point:
*On one hand, the TrueView provided an accurate impression of what to expect so that when you first did see the coin, you were not disappointed and there were no surprises; you felt there was full disclosure.
*On another hand, for your collection display you find the "in-hand" view much more satisfying. The TrueView offers a view that is not designed for comfort, but instead for accuracy.

Your preference in this example reflects the general consensus from what I've seen (not that I've seen all that much). So now, what if there actually was a coin photographer with the capability of offering real in-hand images that were accurately attractive?
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2018  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So now, what if there actually was a coin photographer with the capability of offering real in-hand images that were accurately attractive?


There are a couple it just costs more. Truth be told Phil has the skill to do that too, the problem is the volume he has to deal with doesn't allow for unlimited time to be used getting each coin perfect
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hadleydog's Avatar
Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2018  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actively seek out true-views when considering a coin, and I've had no surprises.
Edited by hadleydog
08/26/2018 02:04 am
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