| Author |
Replies: 38 / Views: 6,304 |
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Of course it doesn't make a dealer trustworthy to be an ANA or PNG member, in and of itself, but then again, I wasn't saying that; arguing that point is little more than trolling. However, what it DOES do is provide one possible avenue via which a customer can file a complaint for an ethics issue (see below.) There are plenty of other things -- negative Internet reviews, the BBB -- that will also allow you to file complaints, but always remember the other side WILL be able to respond and present their case, and can even come back after YOU. I'm not a coin dealer -- I have sold less than 200 coins in the last 30 years, all to individuals, dealers/LCS, and through CCF -- and yes, you can file ethics complaints against members of the ANA and PNG, for a wide variety of reasons ranging from unethical business practices to plagiarism to libel/slander and many others besides. Note that "he won't give me enough money for my coins" or "I think my stuff I bought off HSN is worth $500k and he offered me $50" is not an ethics complaint, just a difference of opinion; but deliberately misleading a customer about the value of their items during a numismatic appraisal certainly is an ethics issue. Just remember that such complaints can unfairly damage the reputation of ethical dealers and should only be raised if you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the dealer's conduct was in violation of one of their professional memberships' Code of Ethics. As a member of many numismatic organizations you have certain obligations regarding how you treat fellow members and especially customers, whether they are dealer customers or individual buyers. I am pretty sure both the ANA and PNG have Codes of Ethics, and PCGS probably does as well although I've never bothered to check.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse 08/25/2018 11:18 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: However, what it DOES do is provide one possible avenue via which a customer can file a complaint for an ethics issue (see below.) There are plenty of other things -- negative Internet reviews, the BBB -- that will also allow you to file complaints, but always remember the other side WILL be able to respond and present their case, and can even come back after YOU. http://business.time.com/2013/03/19...a-bad-grade/https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/busi...?id=12123843https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/ne...u/index.htmlQuote:and yes, you can file ethics complaints against members of the ANA and PNG, for a wide variety of reasons ranging from unethical business practices to plagiarism to libel/slander and many others besides Yes you can. But go do some research on who are remembers of these orgs and what happens with those. Seriously, it will be eye opening Quote: As a member of many numismatic organizations you have certain obligations regarding how you treat fellow members and especially customers, Means nothing. You're hoping to believe the best of a hypothetical watchdog. Anyone who touts that as a reason to trust them probably shouldn't be trusted
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
It is absolutely correct that you should not automatically trust ANYONE based on what memberships they have or don't have. I know plenty of awesome collectors (and even a couple of LCS) that have no personal or professional memberships at all. That being said, consider buying a certified pre-owned car from a manufacturer-branded dealership vs. buying the same from Craigslist via private seller. Both may be completely honest (or dishonest) but at least with the certified pre-owned car you have an avenue of recourse (warranty, lemon law) whereas with the private-party transaction your only recourse is the mercy and good will of the seller.
Substantiated ethics complaints are not usually openly discussed, they are resolved between the parties involved directly or through mediation. It would take something obscenely wrong for a professional organization to publicly censure or reprimand a dealer without very careful regard to the potential legal ramifications involved in doing so.
(Here in Texas, the only public notification of lawyers who are reprimanded by the State Bar, up to disbarment, is via the back pages of professional journals such as Texas Lawyer and buried in fine print in the record books in Austin. The idea is that your misconduct will be noted mostly by your peers, creating pressure on you to behave ethically along with the risk of ostracism and embarrassment to you and your firm.)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse 08/25/2018 11:43 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: That being said, consider buying a certified pre-owned car from a manufacturer-branded dealership vs. buying the same from Craigslist via private seller. Cars and coins aren't comparable at all. Quote: Both may be completely honest (or dishonest) but at least with the certified pre-owned car you have an avenue of recourse (warranty, lemon law) whereas with the private-party transaction your only recourse is the mercy and good will of the seller. This analogy is completely off base. First as mentioned not comparable at all. Second buying from a ebay dealer or online you have real recourse, buying from the "certified pre-owned" dealer at a show or a shop you have 0 recourse. Also in cars there are real consequences for fraud, no membership organization has that for coins. Your comparisons are honestly way off here. I dislike ebay as a seller with their policies, but a buyer is more protected there by far than in a local shop or a coin store. I do honestly mean for people to do some research on the complaints for the orgs, big nothing burgers for the most part
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I am referring to brick and mortar coin dealers, not ebay sellers; the OP was not dealing with ebay. I've presented my case, and won't argue the point any further. I just hope OP understands that not all dealers are dishonest crooks and that there are many people who are NOT like that dealer in our hobby.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:I am referring to brick and mortar coin dealers, not ebay sellers Which just reenforces my point for recourse. Quote: I just hope OP understands that not all dealers are dishonest Where was the dealer dishonest? I try and help people not blindly believe dealers, but in this case....
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. You did, however, ask the members here for their opinion on whether it was "ethical". You seem annoyed that people did share their opinions which did not side with you. You also mention that he told you to educate yourself and that you seem to take umbrage to that comment. You are a CPA, but that doesn't make you know about coins. Being uneducated about a particular subject doesn't mean you are not intelligent. Refusing to get educated, well that's a different story. Now, you may have spent 15 months educating yourself about varieties, but that doesn't mean you had valuable coins. Without sharing examples with pictures that demonstrate that you had a total value significantly higher than $200, we have no way of knowing that this fellow did indeed lowball you. As far as his manners and treatment of your coins, that does seem indefensible.  and I hope you do stick around.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
Quote: Without sharing examples with pictures that demonstrate that you had a total value significantly higher than $200, we have no way of knowing that this fellow did indeed lowball you. That pretty much sums it up for me. Please do post pics or info about the coins you have. How can one form an opinion, otherwise?   Aabloto93!
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1375 Posts |
Quote: ...they arrange a time to visit your house. Although you've already done this, for anyone else who is contemplating it, I wouldn't recommend picking a random dealer from a list to visit your house and evaluate what you believe to be a valuable coin collection. IMHO you're much better off to take part of your collection to them for evaluation. Take a mix of no more than a couple of dozen coins with you (different dates, series, value, etc.). It lets you evaluate the dealer while they evaluate your coins, all without exposing the location of your collection. As far as wasting the dealers time goes, it seems to me the dealer didn't do his due dilligence either. Shouldn't he have asked a few questions to see what kind of collection he was being asked to evaluate and for what purpose before he made the trip? If he thought his time was wasted, then it sounds like there was not a mutual understanding of what he was being asked to do before he made the trip.
Edited by BadDog 08/26/2018 07:42 am
|
|
New Member
 United States
6 Posts |
He said home visits were normal for him, since his customers are normally "older".
Also, value or not, how would any of you like someone to go into your collection and toss them around like ping pong balls as they smack the hardwood floor around you. I couldn't believe it, every coin that hit the ground my whole body cringed.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
I understand where you are coming from. I learned this early on in my collecting. I am more of a collector than an investor. As collectors we all have a personal attachment to our collections. I remember bring my coins to flea market, brick and mortar coin shops, coin shows thinking I had something really interesting and invested a lot of time in looking things up, checking on an error or variety etc, and quite frankly it was really nothing special to the potential buyer. We as collectors may have a few hundred coins, but these dealers see tens of thousands and more and rightly so, it is there business. They were not bad mouthing you or the collection they are putting in into perspective from their experience and knowledge. Now at the tender age of 55, I am still learning but a bit wiser. Education is the key. The more that see, read and study, the more it makes sense. I have learned a tremendous amount from going to coin shows especially the FUN show in Florida. I am Tampa based, where ICG is located. The ICG guys, Randy Campbell and Skip Fazzari are always there and at local coin shows. They will answer any question and quite approachable and tell you if you have nothing or if you have something. Getting yourself more educatd id the key
|
|
New Member
United States
26 Posts |
Quote: Also, value or not, how would any of you like someone to go into your collection and toss them around like ping pong balls as they smack the hardwood floor around you. I couldn't believe it, every coin that hit the ground my whole body cringed. I would have shown him the door after he did that the very first time, he never would have had the chance to do it a second time. I don't care if the coin had any value beyond face or not. Unfortunately this is the really distasteful side of this hobby. It sucks. I wish that I had advice on a more satisfying recurse for you but I don't. I think the best you can do is take satisfaction in the fact the subject dealer will NEVER procure any of your business in the future again.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
Quote: Also, value or not, how would any of you like someone to go into your collection and toss them around like ping pong balls as they smack the hardwood floor around you. I couldn't believe it, every coin that hit the ground my whole body cringed. Don't give that dealer any business in the future. That is bad whether the coin is valuable or not.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
744 Posts |
Take it as a learning experience. At least put your coins in flips to protect them, never let anyone touch a raw coin of yours. Dealers are not hobbists, they are in buisness to make money. You will not make any money selling to dealers.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1375 Posts |
Quote:
I would have shown him the door after he did that the very first time, he never would have had the chance to do it a second time.  and it has nothing to do with value. He should have just shown some respect for another person's property.
|
| |
Replies: 38 / Views: 6,304 |