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Mint Errors And Die Varieties: Bane Or Passion?

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 Posted 10/17/2018  4:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. Previous forum: US Classic and Colonial Coins ***


Instead of asking my typical newby question, I thought I'd see if there is interest in a philosophical discussion. Indulge me while I tell part of my collecting history:
I started collecting in 1962 or '63, when I was five or six, and my father gave me a large jar of coins, some Whitman folders, and told me to have at it. I took to it like a fish out of water. It was like a never ending puzzle. It became my childhood passion. I even wrote a fifth grade report and oral presentation on the Flying Eagle cent. Everyone laughed when I said "Furtwanger."
By the time I was ten, I had assembled from circulation a complete second folder (1941-'64) of Lincoln cents. Complete, except for that pesky '55s. After searching unsuccessfully, I finally went to my first coin shop and bought my '55s for fifty cents. My folder was full!
A little later, my father bought me an expensive Whitman album. I was thrilled. I immediately began transferring my coins to the album. Then I saw it. THE HOLE. It said 1955 dbl die obv beneath it. I had never heard of it, or even knew what it meant. But I soon found out. I also learned it was unobtainable.
That hole seemed to stare at me mercilessly for years. Finally, I bought something called a "poor man's double die". I never could see any real difference from a regular '55, but it filled the darn hole. Another unobtainable Lincoln considered to be part of the "full set" was the 1922 without mint mark.
Ever since, I have had an antipathy to mint errors, and by extension die varieties. Yet it seems I see more and more double die and overdate coins contained in lists of complete date and mint mark sets. I have a fallacious reason for not viewing these coins as belonging to a full set: they were never designed to look that way by the designer. But the real reason is that way back when it was something I could never have, I resented it for being an unsolvable part of the puzzle
So I don't collect these. And that is one of the great things: each collector can decide what to collect. And "these things " that I don't choose to collect are all things that were never designed or were never intended to be minted. The latter category would include the famous, but unlawfully issued 1913 Liberty nickel, the iconic 1804 silver dollar minted some thirty years later and not intended for circulation, and all restrikes. What do they really all have in common? Prohibitive cost.
I must admit that as a boy, I felt the same way about the 1909s VDB. It too, was something I thought I never could afford. I don't own one now because I really don't want one as I am choosing to collect older coins than the current "dead presidents." Still, I refer to it disdainfully as "that silly penny" and I use its mintage as something of a benchmark for judging rarity, particularly with 20th century coins. I feel a little warm and fuzzy inside when I buy a rarer coin for a lower price I.e., 1921, 1921d Walkers plus a myriad of coins from the 19th century. For type collecting purposes, I choose to view the VDB cents as little more than die varieties. I have dozens of priorities higher than finding a nice 1909VDB cent.
I don't mean to denigrate error and die variety collectors. Some of the most intriguing coins I have seen have been some very wild mint errors. I thoroughly respect the research and scholarship that goes into matching die varieties. It's just that neither is my personal thing.
So, I've said a lot here. If my opinionated rambling provokes any thoughts, I'd be happy to know them. If you get to the end of this and perhaps rightly decide it's mindless drivel, I thank you for for your patience in bearing with me to the end.
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Earle42's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2018  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To each his own. I enjoy finding errors just b/c they are different. Some of them, being found only since being on this forum, are varieties I now really like. I prefer things like DDOs and DDRs that can be seen readily as well as RPMs.
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Tanman2001's Avatar
United States
4395 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2018  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am a passionate collector of die varieties and mint errors, but I agree that they should not be included in normal complete date and mint sets.

PCGS has a "with major varieties" for every type set, so those interested in varieties have that. Varieties should not be forced into the normal sets.

Although there is a bit of a gray area here. It is hard to draw the line considering the 1922 no D, the 1955 DDO, the 1982 composition changes, and the 1960 date changes are all "varieties." The latter two are almost always in type sets due to how common they are. Drawing the line between those two scarce varieties and those two common varieties is subjective and somewhat arbitrary, especially considering ones you would have to get either way (1909-S VDB) are as rare if not rarer.

But just like you said, none of this really matters though since you can collect whatever you want and we shouldn't be forced otherwise.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2018  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is hard to draw the line considering the 1922 no D, the 1955 DDO, the 1982 composition changes, and the 1960 date changes are all "varieties."

The 1922 plain is a die stage, the 1955 DDO is a die variety, and the 1982 composition changes are a legitimate change in type. The large and small dates that year are a bit of a gray area. Probably varieties but not die varieties. Some for the 1960 large and small dates varieties not die varieties. the large/small or vice versa are die varieties.

I'm not that interested in errors, but I do like die varieties on the older coins from back when each die was made by hand.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
United States
73688 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2018  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a couple very useful and information websites you can use, in order to get started. Do some research on all of these websites, and then go from there. http://www.doubleddie.com http://www.varietyvista.com http://www.error-ref.com
Errers and Varietys.
Valued Member
United States
492 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2018  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add radatat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would love to discuss value of errors and varieties, not to sell but to begin to catergorize them in all denominations like the VAMs. Plus if coin collecting is to survive when we no longer use coins, there have to be exciting reasons for value to be "attractive". The way the millenial population is (not meant bad), once coins are gone they are gone. Maybe all we can do is legacy what we have to each other. Hmmm.
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 Posted 10/23/2018  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Moderator/Editor:
I must admit I got my amusement for the day when you changed a word in my initial post to "darn," the original word in question being in the dictionary since Samuel Johnson first compiled it, and being a part of the English language since time immemorial. I have even seen it used in church hymns. Nonetheless I understand the desire for an inoffensive and non-controversial forum, and will do my best to comply in the future. I really did get a good laugh out of it, though.
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