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 Replies: 11 / Views: 5,940 |
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New Member
Israel
2 Posts |
Hello everyone, I'm new here. I decided to register after lurking for some time. I recently came across a fake 1911 sovereign, I bought it with a bunch of other coins, including some sovereigns. The immediate giveaway was its larger size (22.44mm). The weight is 7.985g. An XRF test confirmed it is fake: only 84% gold. Now I'm curious, who went to great lengths to produce such a high quality fake? Might it be one of the infamous Lebanese forgeries?    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7618 Posts |
 to the Community! I'd pretty much count on it having Lebanese origins. Others may have a different opinion. |
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
to the Community! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2637 Posts |
I have always been fascinated by the list of sovereigns of various fineness and source of manufacture that are bought and sold by the Bank of Greece. BANK OF GREECE FINANCIAL OPERATIONS DEPARTMENT RESERVES MANAGEMENT SECTION Athens 22/10/2018 BULLETIN OF PRICES OF GOLD BARS AND GOLD COINS Νο. 140 a for transactions between BoG and Individuals against EUR (Governor's Act 2456/00) for transactions up to the equivelant of EURO 10.000,00 Valid from 22/10/2018 (08:13) onward until the publication of the next one A. GOLD 99 GOLD OF FINENESS* 0.995 - 1.000 PER GRAM ** 32,8-bid; 37,07-offer B. SOVEREIGN: FINENESS 0.9166 (7,940 - 7,988 GRAM) 01 OLD SOVEREIGN 242,56-bid; 292,61-offer 02 NEW SOVEREIGN (minted up to 1973 inclusive) 242,56-bid; 292,61-offer 03 NEW SOVEREIGN (minted from 1974 onward) 242,56-bid; 289,97-offer 04 SOVEREIGN defective in appearance 235,27-bid; 283,84-offer C. SOVEREIGN : UNDERWEIGHT or OF DIFFERENT FINENESS 05 UNDERWEIGHT SOVEREIGN OF FINENESS 0.9166 (7,900 - 7,939 GR) 231,54-bid; 261,73-offer 06 UNDERWEIGHT SOVEREIGN OF FINENESS 0.9166 (7,500 - 7,899 GR) 219,82-bid; 248,47-offer 07 UNDERWEIGHT SOVEREIGN OF FINENESS 0.9166 (7.000 - 7.499 GR) 205,16-bid; 231,91-offer 08 ITALIAN MINTING SOVEREIGN OF FINENESS 0.905 223,87-bid; 253,07-offer 09 LEBANESE MINTING SOVEREIGN OF FINENESS 0.720 178,95-bid; 202,41-offer https://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/e...&FltVal=1513 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1494 Posts |
to the forum, Mister B. I was a long-time lurker myself before joining. |
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Moderator
Australia
16826 Posts |
If it's made of actual gold, then there are two probable sources: Lebanon, latter 20th century, and Dubai, to the present day.
It is legal in Dubai to produce and sell fake sovereigns, so long as the actual fineness of the gold is clearly marked on the "coin". Dubai fakes thus usually have a "21" or "22", either in Western or Arabic numerals, stamped on them somewhere. Fake sovereigns without such stamps are usually attributed to Lebanon.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
 Israel
2 Posts |
Thanks guys.
As I mentioned, this coin contains ~84% gold.
There is no unusual marking on it, and expect for its larger size - obviously to compensate for the lighter alloy - it did seem fine at first.
But whomever minted it made two mistakes that I found upon close examination:
1: Obverse and reverse are not perfectly aligned with each other. When I put several sovereigns in a row on a glass surface and then look underneath, it is noticeable that the engraving on the fake is a little bit tilted.
2. The rim: on a genuine coin, the ridges go all the way from one side of the coin to the other. On the fake, when looking through a magnifying glass, the rim is imperfect and some ridges are conected to each other. Almost unnoticable but it is there.
All in all, this coin is fake, but very close to the real one.
It was originally purchased from a bank in Buenos Aires some 35 years ago. I wonder if they knew it's fake.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
hmm why can't it come from a other countries like Turkey or Egypt, don't they also have like bazaar selling jewelry pieces or is it just that most of the Goldsmiths in arab world is done in Lebenon.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36744 Posts |
Quote:
It is legal in Dubai to produce and sell fake sovereigns, so long as the actual fineness of the gold is clearly marked on the "coin". Dubai fakes thus usually have a "21" or "22", either in Western or Arabic numerals, stamped on them somewhere. Fake sovereigns without such stamps are usually attributed to Lebanon. Good info Sap. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
665 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
very interesting article, that is why ive been avoiding purchasing gold coins (unless they are a bargin and I can almost be certain they are real, must have COA, must have proof of purchase, must match exactly prime example, must be face to face or a place with refundable) for now I feel I need a good understanding of the genuine item and the fake ones (due to the fact that a fake gold coin compare to a fake silver coin is different via fake of like maybe 10x)
wow that is still a holy heck load of GOLLLLLDDDDDDDD 400,000 fake sovereigns, even taking a 0.91 finness you get 2,907 kgs of gold. I wonder where all of these coins went.
Does anyone have good reference link to reference material on this topic fake sovereign or fake gold.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2180 Posts |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 5,940 |
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Posted 10/22/2018 3:33 pm
