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 Replies: 22 / Views: 3,330 |
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Valued Member
United States
460 Posts |
Last year I read a book by Q. David Bowers that was written in 2005 on how to collect and invest in rare coins. He advised avoiding heavily toned or dark coins. So I avoided those coins without really looking at them and bought only shiny or steel gray coins. About a week ago, I posted a question about commercially acceptable cleaning as related to a straight graded Liberty Seated dollars. In the intriguing and informative thread that followed, I learned about dipping, retoning, and other aspects of cleaning older coins. I also was surprised by the number of posters advocating for "original skin." These people seemed to like the very coins I thought I should be avoiding. So I began looking at the "original" coins I had been avoiding as heavily toned or too dark, and I saw a beauty in them I had never taken the time to appreciate. I began contemplating a significant purchase of an original skin coin I found particularly attractive. Then, today I got confused. In a poll asking which of two Trade dollars was preferred between a heavily toned and apparently original Trade dollar and an untoned Trade dollar, I was surprised to find about 80% preferred the untoned coin although it clearly had been dipped. This was much different than I expected given the views expressed in the thread I started. I know tastes and fashions always change, but I am really confused about which is currently, at least, considered more desirable. At a simple level, it seems to me that original coins are undoubtedly real, but that untoned and even dipped coins look more like they did when fresh from the mint. I am sure a lot of people have opinions on this, and I would be happy to hear any you care to share, as your thoughts will help my frame my own decisions. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
I prefer original coins most of the time especially when it comes to certain series like Seated coinage. But original skin isn't always the best option...sometimes a coin may have very dark toning that may progress into black toning outside of a near airtight environment like a slab, which is undesirable for some series. Therefore I preferred the less toned Trade dollar example in the other thread. But in general, I usually prefer coins with original surfaces more than dipped coins. I am one of the 'toning' and 'crusty patina' fans here...I know some others are not.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
There are dark coins and then there are dark coins. I prefer nicely toned coins myself. You need to start studying the types of coins that CAC stickers. CAC looks at only the top 20% or so for the grade in eye appeal, quality, and originality. Those coins are seeing a premium in the marketplace. There are so many factors to look for in acquiring a coin. I'm at the point where I only purchase original coins, with good strikes, minimally marked surfaces, clean cheeks, no hairlines, etc. Because I like Early Type Coins, I can probably count on one hand the number of white coins in my collection and I'm fine with that.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Bowers was right in general, heavily toned dark coins generally have a smaller market and sometimes much smaller. Coins get dipped and have been dipped for decades because the majority like the lighter better luster look. Dark doesn't always mean original nor does untoned always mean unoriginal.
The thing that drives prices and liquidity a lot is quite simply eye appeal. You can see strong evidence of that in prices realized, and you can also see colorful toning that does the same, but when things get to dark and services luster becomes muted you lose buyers.
Grade level plays a role as well. There's no one this is always true rule with coins other than eye appealing coins are the most popular
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Quote:Then, today I got confused. In a poll asking which of two Trade dollars was preferred between a heavily toned and apparently original Trade dollar and an untoned Trade dollar, I was surprised to find about 80% preferred the untoned coin although it clearly had been dipped. This was much different than I expected given the views expressed in the thread I started. I think I remember the post you are referring to. Please post a link to refresh my memory. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
If so it seems to need to be explained more. That's two toned Trade dollars where people where for the most part people were saying to keep the nicer one slabbed The "lighter one" actually appears to have a darker reverse being that was a scan and the first one was just a low light picture. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
Yeah, pretty sure that's the topic the OP is referring to.
Edited by SilverDollar2017
10/23/2018 11:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
I believe that the question posed in that thread was which coin would you choose to crack out of its slab to be placed in an album. The majority chose the lighter coin (most likely dipped) since placing either in an album would rekindle the toning process, and the already heavily toned piece would eventually become terminal.
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Valued Member
 United States
460 Posts |
Yes, you folks correctly found the thread referred to in the op.
As to increasing toning, I can understand how "album toning" could continue indefinitely. How likely is a dark toned coin to get darker if slabbed and kept in a dry environment like the Arizona desert?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Quote:
How likely is a dark toned coin to get darker if slabbed and kept in a dry environment like the Arizona desert? That really depends on how close to terminal toning the darkly toned piece is. The silver oxide layer that begins to form on every silver coin from the moment it was struck at first acts as a layer of protection for the original surface. Over time, this silver oxide layer (thick skinned, or toned depending on how light refracts through it) will no longer protect the coins surface, and the natural degradation process will continue. Dipping will not return it to its original condition, as dipping removes a thin layer of the surface.....eventually leading to diminished luster. Unless stored in a vacuum, there is no way to stop this process.....original skin will slow it, but not stop it. I have seen heavily toned pieces (not dark) remain unchanged for decades. My avatar is one.  |
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
IMHO,I think it boils down to eye appeal and if you like toned coins. Here is a link to eye appeal I thought was a good read https://www.PCGS.com/eyeappealJohn1  |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
When it comes to mint state silver coins,
I prefer blast white to any sort of toning.
That way, the mint luster can be fully displayed.
In other words, as if it just left the minting press.
That is about as original as you can get.
Nevertheless, any toning should never be disturbed.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Just remember there are different types of coin collectors. Some like toned coins, some like old coins, some like newer ones, etc. Some like US coins and some hate them. So many different types of coins, so many different types of collectors. |
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Moderator
United States
187862 Posts |
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The thing that drives prices and liquidity a lot is quite simply eye appeal This is true. You should like what you like. If you find one coin more attractive than another then who cares what others think? You buy the attractive coin! If you collect based on polls and popularity you are probably not going to enjoy it for long. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4468 Posts |
The key to buying coins with orginal skin is eye appeal. Ugly dark toned coins with orginal skin are typically not wanted by most collectors. The attractive original skin toned is sought after by many collectors and will command a premium to purchase. I recall the Trade dollar choice of the two coins and the toned Trade dollar was on the strange side of toning. I started out collecting classic coins that look like they were just minted, and my taste changed to classic coins with orginal skin and eye appeal. I do like my Half Cents and large cents with orginal skin dark chocolate toning. |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 3,330 |
Posted 10/23/2018 10:13 pm
