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Where Do Sellers Get Their BU Rolls?

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ACWhammy's Avatar
United States
119 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2018  7:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ACWhammy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

So I bought $80 of nickels and upon opening the first ten rolls, I noticed that 95% of them appeared to be uncirculated 2015 D (Literally 95% as only 2 coins per roll were not uncirculated 2015 D.)

So I asked myself, can I re-roll these and sell them as BU Rolls?

Then I took a gander on ebay and I noticed sellers selling "bank-wrapped BU Rolls of nickels." Other sellers sell them in their own coin tubes, so they had to have gone through them. Where do they get these? And in the case of "bank-wrapped," how do they know each coin is the same date uncirculated?

Are my Nickels just as worthy of being sold as BU rolls? Technically I have no idea if they've ever seen the light of day outside of being shipped to the bank from the Federal Reserve, but they sure appear uncirculated to me. I took a sample picture below, literally every roll so far has looked like this:

Where-Do-Sellers-Get-Their-BU-Rolls?

As usual, thanks for any insight.

AC
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T-BOP's Avatar
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18456 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2018  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like you came into BU bank rolls . The 2 coins per roll that you say are not uncirculated could be just inferior coins ( not uncommon ). If you want to sell them on E-bay I would advise you don't reroll them even if you have a crimping machine . Not a good practice if you want to have a lot of followers .
As far as where the E-bay sellers get their BU rolls from ; either buying them from collectors or a bank .
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ACWhammy's Avatar
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119 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2018  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACWhammy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It looks like you came into BU bank rolls . The 2 coins per roll that you say are not uncirculated could be just inferior coins ( not uncommon ). If you want to sell them on E-bay I would advise you don't reroll them even if you have a crimping machine . Not a good practice if you want to have a lot of followers .
As far as where the E-bay sellers get their BU rolls from ; either buying them from collectors or a bank


Ok thanks, but wouldn't the sellers still have to look through the rolls? Or do they place special orders at the bank, ensuring that every coin is the same date and in BU condition?

I'm not sure I follow - why is it not a good practice to re-roll them? What type of packaging would be considered a better practice?

AC
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yellow88's Avatar
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581 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2018  01:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ACWhammy- Here is how you can get them (plus other goodies) yourself. It also eliminates your other question as there is no need to re-roll.


Most Bank Wrapped Coins Come from the Federal Reserve
Unfortunately, there's a glitch. Most banks don't like to sell rolled coins to their customers and to get the bank to acquire rolls of coins fresh from the mint is virtually impossible. Part of the problem lies in the way that the Federal Reserve System distributes coinage to the banks. The Fed charges the banks a fee to place special orders for coin and currency unless the coin qualifies as a "Commemorative Issue" and has a designated Special Ordering Period. (The Statehood Quarters and the Presidential dollars both qualified under this designation when they're first released.)

However, even if you can get your local bank to special-order the wrapped coins unless they qualify as Commemorative Issues, there is no guarantee that the Fed will send the banks mint-state coins anyway! The Fed isn't required to honor requests for mint-state (what they call "new") coins, but they say they do when inventory levels allow. The Fed always sends out "mixed" (circulated or used) coinage first.

The point here is that even if you found a bank willing to cooperate and order new coins for you, they might not even get them! The result is that the bank fills out a Special Request form, possibly pays fees, and then doesn't get what you wanted anyway, resulting in unhappy customers. The banks' solution to this problem, typically, is to avoid doing any special ordering for coins at all.

Finally, banks in smaller markets may not be ordering directly from the Federal Reserve Bank. The Fed may contract with a large regional bank to do their coin and paper money distribution into smaller markets. The large regional bank also collects a fee to handle these special requests.

How to Crack the Bank's Refusal to Sell Rolled Coins
Now that you understand the reasons why banks are reluctant to order and provide rolled coins, you can learn to work with them to get what you need, whether it's mint-state rolls of Sacagawea dollars or heavily circulated pennies so you can sort out the copper from the zinc. The first step is to define your goal.

If your goal is to get mint-state coins of non-commemorative coins (as defined above), your best bet is a smaller, full-service bank that doesn't usually deal with a lot of merchant accounts. Such banks are typically positioned as higher end "enterprise banks," and don't have the free types of checking and savings accounts. But if you're a hard-core coin searcher or like to lay up a lot of mint-state rolls, a bank of this sort will be the type most likely to order and get "new" coins. They will most probably pass the fees along to you, too, and having an account at the bank will be mandatory.

Ordering Circulated Coinage Is Easy
If your goal is to buy rolls of circulated coins, your best bank type is the big name, broad appeal banks where average small business people do their banking. These banks typically deal in very large amounts of circulated coinage, as some business types take in more than they need, and thus deposit it, whereas other business types use vast amounts of mixed coinage to give to their customers in change. Banks that do a steady merchant business almost always have plenty of circulated coinage on hand, and will often sell it to non-account holders. If you want to get this type of coinage regularly, though, especially in large amounts (such as boxes of rolls, rather than just a few rolls themselves,), it's a good idea to open an account there.

Dealing with Difficult Bank Tellers
Regardless of the type of bank you go to, you may encounter tellers that are difficult, stubborn or obtuse. Some of them merely need some genuine hand-holding, but others seem to be contrary just because they can. When you encounter difficult tellers, take a moment to explain things. Tell them that they can order the coins directly from the Fed on your behalf. If they claim they can't do that, then asked to get the head teller or supervisor.

Always be courteous but firm. If banks claim they "don't carry" the Presidential dollars, for example, let them know that all they need to do is order them. Go up the management chain if you have to. If they keep insisting they won't order them, ask if there's another branch of the bank that will. Get them to call around for you to find what you need. After all, you're the customer!

Advanced Planning for Bank Wrapped Rolls
When you know a particular coin type is being released, call ahead and ask your bank to order the quantity you want, and hold it for you. If you like to put away rolls of mint-state coins of types that are hard to find in full rolls, such as nickels and dimes, call your bank every couple of days and check to see if any mint rolls came in. Find out what day they usually get their Fed orders, and call that day. When they get some mint-state coins in, ask them to hold them for you.

By far, the best way to ensure a steady supply of bank wrapped rolls is to develop a relationship with a certain bank. Become friendly with the head teller or manager. Ask them to call you if someone deposits unusual items, like rolls of half dollars or large size dollars, such as Eisenhower dollars. In fact, make it a habit always of asking the teller to check the vault for rolls and partial rolls of these coin types. Banks would love to clear out these oddments since they can't send them to the Fed until they acquire a certain amount. Half dollars and large size dollars, among all types of currently circulating coins, are most likely to produce silver or valuable varieties!
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ACWhammy's Avatar
United States
119 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2018  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACWhammy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

@Yellow88 thanks for the response!


Quote:
there is no guarantee that the Fed will send the banks mint-state coins anyway! The Fed isn't required to honor requests for mint-state (what they call "new") coins, but they say they do when inventory levels allow. The Fed always sends out "mixed" (circulated or used) coinage first.


So if there is no guarantee this sounds like you'd still have to search through the rolls just to make sure!


Quote:
The point here is that even if you found a bank willing to cooperate and order new coins for you, they might not even get them!


It seems like it's worth more trouble than the time for the sellers to attempt to do this.

So I guess the batch I got is just as good as anyone's, if everyone just gets them from the bank.

This answers my question, thank you; however, would you agree with T-BOP in that it's bad practice to roll them before selling?

AC
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T-BOP's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
would you agree with T-BOP in that it's bad practice to roll them before selling?

The only reason is to keep you honest, meaning some sellers will take an OBW roll ( original bank wrapped ),go through them ,pick out any errors or high grade coins .Replenish the ones he took out with regular coins then fill a new paper wrapper and crimp the ends . Now he sells these as OBW's never searched . Who's to know ?
The reason why I'm telling you this is because I'm an OBW roll collector and I frown upon sellers who do this and deceive everyone . So if you must sell ,just put them in plastic tubes with good photos of some of those pristine Nickels . Again, honesty is the best policy .
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So I guess the batch I got is just as good as anyone's, if everyone just gets them from the bank.

Some of the larger firms do not just get them from the bank. It IS possible to get bags of coins directly from the Mint, but we are talking about Ballistic Bags that hold around, literally, a ton of coins. A bag of nickels would be around $10,000 face value. They pay face value plus a percentage of face something like 5 or 10%, plus a modest fee and a deposit on the special pallet the bag is on. They also have to pick them up them selves, no delivery. They have to provide their own transportation and forklift. The mint will put them on the loading dock, the rest is up to you. It isn't a set up that a collector or even a small business is going to take them up on. But the large wholesalers do. I've seen the operation behind the scenes at one of those large operators. They had a special hoist machine for lifting up the bags so they dumped directly into the rolling machine and "original rolls" came out the other side. These wholesalers sell to other dealers and sometimes directly to collectors.
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cladking's Avatar
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2270 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2018  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most rolls with more than 95% one date are 100% the same date. Sellers simply assume they are the same date.

Generally older rolls 1965 to 1999 don't exist at all except for cents and some dates of nickels so rolls are made up of mint set coins.

The Fed used to do all their own coin handling but they contract out virtually all of this work now days. The FED tended to usually empty the hoppers before and after putting brand new coin in them so there were no mixed rolls. The counting houses are less likely to do this so the first coins in the hopper will be poorly represented in rolls and then there will be thousands of solid date rolls followed by rolls with fewer and fewer of the new coins.

The mixing is becoming increasingly pronounced which suggests that they are using larger and larger hoppers. Some of this mixing could be intentional as well and done at the behest of the FED. Limiting the supply of full date rolls will limit the drawdown by collectors. They did this with the '74-S cent but it's much less likely they would do the same today since selling quarters for 25c is a profit center for them.
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ACWhammy's Avatar
United States
119 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2018  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACWhammy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

The only reason is to keep you honest, meaning some sellers will take an OBW roll ( original bank wrapped ),go through them ,pick out any errors or high grade coins .Replenish the ones he took out with regular coins then fill a new paper wrapper and crimp the ends . Now he sells these as OBW's never searched . Who's to know ?
The reason why I'm telling you this is because I'm an OBW roll collector and I frown upon sellers who do this and deceive everyone . So if you must sell ,just put them in plastic tubes with good photos of some of those pristine Nickels . Again, honesty is the best policy .


Oh! I had no intentions of selling under the guise of calling them OBW rolls. I simply wanted to re-roll them for convenience. I would tell the story in my advertisement and if people didn't want to buy that's fine with me. After all, they're still worth $2 a roll in the end :D


Quote:
Some of the larger firms do not just get them from the bank. It IS possible to get bags of coins directly from the Mint, but we are talking about Ballistic Bags that hold around, literally, a ton of coins. A bag of nickels would be around $10,000 face value. They pay face value plus a percentage of face something like 5 or 10%, plus a modest fee and a deposit on the special pallet the bag is on. They also have to pick them up them selves, no delivery. They have to provide their own transportation and forklift. The mint will put them on the loading dock, the rest is up to you. It isn't a set up that a collector or even a small business is going to take them up on. But the large wholesalers do.


Now THIS makes sense. I believe this was the answer I was looking for. It explains a lot, thanks.


Quote:

The mixing is becoming increasingly pronounced which suggests that they are using larger and larger hoppers. Some of this mixing could be intentional as well and done at the behest of the FED. Limiting the supply of full date rolls will limit the drawdown by collectors


Yes I think there was definitely some intentional mixing in the batch I got. I'll have a roll with 38 pristine 2015 D Nickels and then one cruddy 2006 and one 1969. It's really weird. Every roll has been like this.

Thanks guys for all of the insight! I've been a collector for a long time but I'm always learning new things.

AC
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yellow88's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ACWhammy-

Yes, I agree 100% with T-BOP.

In addition, I would do everything exactly as T-BOP advises in his second post. He IS literally your ideal client handing you a gift.



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yellow88's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow88 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ACWhammy-

If you want the absolute best product at the absolute lowest price (described above) you too can do it. Pretty easily BTW.

I'll keep it brief; it's quite simple. Customers (individuals or businesses) must:

1. complete order form (5 min. max)
2. purchase the minimum of one bulk bag
3. pay for the coins at face value plus a processing fee, which is a percentage of total order value
4. pay in full & in advance via electronic funds transfer to the US Mint
5. assume all shipping costs & arrange pick up to receive coins at the dock of US Mint facilities in Philly or Denver

Some Basic Numbers:

America the Beautiful Quarters- 1 bulk bag (200,000 coins at face is $50,000) plus 3% processing fee ($1,500)

Native American Dollars- 1 bulk bag (140,000 coins at face is $140,000) plus 8.5% processing fee ($11,900)

You get this!

Where-Do-Sellers-Get-Their-BU-Rolls?
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T-BOP's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm ,I think that's a little over kill for me .
Where-Do-Sellers-Get-Their-BU-Rolls?
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ACWhammy's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  3:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACWhammy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Yes, I agree 100% with T-BOP.

In addition, I would do everything exactly as T-BOP advises in his second post. He IS literally your ideal client handing you a gift.


Yeah, coin tubes are probably the best way to go. Less chance of busting open and less explaining to do to the buyer.

I'm not sure how sellers make a profit though. I saw the last roll sold for $6.01 on ebay.

$6.01
- .60 ebay %10 fee
- .17 Paypal 2.9% fee
- .30 Paypal transaction fee
- .25 coin tube
- 2.00 face value of nickels
- ~2.50 shipping

= .19 profit!

That's not counting the cost of packing materials & envelopes! I don't see how it's worth anyone's time!

I just hate to see such nice coins go to waste by dumping them at my bank lol


Quote:


Some Basic Numbers:

America the Beautiful Quarters- 1 bulk bag (200,000 coins at face is $50,000) plus 3% processing fee ($1,500)

Native American Dollars- 1 bulk bag (140,000 coins at face is $140,000) plus 8.5% processing fee ($11,900)


That's epic, man! And thanks for the pic! I'm not going to do this but it's good to know the standard of the best way to purchase them.

AC
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cladking's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've always found the best coins by chasing them down.

I just travel around looking for a nice Gem or variety and when I find them I ask where they do their banking. Then I go there and try to secure as many rolls as possible.

It's very labor intensive and sometimes you won't even be able to get the coins from the bank. Now days there are a lot more Gems so it's a little easier. Back in the old days you could do a hundred spot checks on local coins before you found some nice Gem candidates. Ironically I was about to give up on 1982-P quarters altogether when the local BMV gave me two Gems and a nice choice '82-P's in change. They got them at my very own bank!
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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cladking's Avatar
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 Posted 10/26/2018  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ironically I was about to give up on 1982-P quarters altogether when the local BMV gave me two Gems and a nice choice '82-P's in change. They got them at my very own bank!


It never occurred to me before but those three quarters are now worth more than the car I was licensing. Most people still just shove their change in their pockets with hardly a glance.

Many times when buying gas (the cost of chasing them down) I'd get some nice clads and ask them for any others they had in the register.

Mint set coins tend to be nicer and easier to find but some Gems are obviously not from mint sets and these are quite desirable to me.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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 Posted 10/26/2018  4:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chipjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the BU and OBW rolls I sell were bought in the year they were issued and packed away. Some are from the 1950's. But nothing newer than the early 70's. I have cents, nickels, dimes, Quarters, Half's, and some Dollars. BU rolls are in tubes.
But where did they come from? A hoard from a late doctor.
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