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 Replies: 8 / Views: 3,377 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
One of the rarest matte proof cents is the 1909 VDB, with an estimated survival of about 300, but mintage was 1194. There is only one verified proof die, and the other proof cents are accounted for as being thrown out by the mint or just lost. There are also a lot of matte proof looking 1909 vdb cents that are not called proof coins because they aren't the one verified die pair. Shouldn't there be a couple more die pairs? Or even 3? And that would account for the missing other proof cents and the reason there are a lot of proof like 1909 vdb cents that don't display the same markers as the known die pair? I'm not sure maybe I just really wished this vdb I have was a proof  |
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Moderator
 United States
54280 Posts |
According to the Mega Red Book, only 420 were released by the mint, and the rest were destroyed and the copper used to make non-VDB cents. 1,194 does not seem like a mintage that would require more than one set of dies. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6478 Posts |
I didn't know about the 420 being released, the rest being destroyed makes since. But I do think that the mintage of 1194 would require the polishing they did of the dies to have happened in that 1194 mintage time period right? And that would have gotten rid of the die markers? Of the 420 released, I doubt all of them had exactly the same die markers, but I definitely could be wrong. I guess there is no way to tell unless you looked at all the potential proof vdbs.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Who's to say your 1909-vdb wasn't struck from an unknown die pair ( unregisted , undocumented , whatever it's called )and has no die markers known . Hmm very interesting .  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
I'm doing research into that, and most the high grade MS67 1909 VDBs are the same die pair as this one. The have lathe lines on the underside of Lincoln's bust, and the Liberty looks like a doubled die. I'll get some more evidence on there being one more die state for 1909 vdb proof Lincolns.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19948 Posts |
One set of dies was plenty for the low production number. Some of us hardcore guys believe the mint moved those dies over to production instead of tossing them. So many business strikes produced "matte like" qualities. However, the planchets were not cleaned and polished like a proof planchet, so the quality is lesser. The matte die finish wore off quickly but quite a few coins were produced before that happened. Of course, this is the prevailing conspiracy theory.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19948 Posts |
The only alternative explanation for the 1909 VDB imposters is that the mint was experimenting with sandblasting the production dies early on. I don't know how else the matte feature could have been imparted on so many coins. I own some with those proof like characteristics myself. This 1909 business strike had me wondering for months:  Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
Edited by BadThad
11/01/2018 10:14 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19948 Posts |
Here's another 1909 plain that really looks like a proof:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6478 Posts |
There definitely could have been retired proof dies that make the imposters that are business strikes, but there are the MS67+ examples that share the same die pair as eachother. These are coins that would be called proof had it not been the fact that there is only one die pair for the matte proof vdbs. If you looked at them and dismissed the idea that there definitely is only one die pair, one would say that they are proof coins, but they are dismissed as proof coins because of the solid idea that there is only one die pair. All I'm saying is, just because a proof die pair was retired to make business strike coins, doesn't mean that that die pair wasn't altered in its life time or didn't make any proof coins in its life time before being retired. Perhaps they did experiment with sand blasting the dies during that time period for business strike. I just looked it up and in 2010 someone wrote an article saying what I'm saying right now but I'm assuming it didn't go anywhere since I'm talking about it now.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 3,377 |
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Posted 10/31/2018 9:21 pm
