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1944 War Nickel Or Fake? Henning Nickel?

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yellow1053's Avatar
United States
23 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2008  12:14 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add yellow1053 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,
I have two 1944 Jefferson nickels that DON'T have a P, D, or S on the back above the building. I'm pretty sure these are counterfeits. is that common?
thanks.
Jim.
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GO's Avatar
United States
6563 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2008  12:22 am  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep. Any War Nickels without a mintmark are almost always a fake. They are still an interesting collectible though

Got pics?
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yellow1053's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/22/2008  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow1053 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeah, here's a couple. my only question is why? what purpose would it serve to make a fake nickel, that's obviously different. it certainly wouldn't be worth anything as it's missing mintmark would prove it wasn't silver. ?

1944-War-Nickel-Or-Fake?-Henning-Nickel? 1944-War-Nickel-Or-Fake?-Henning-Nickel?
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/22/2008  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are Henning nickels. They were made in New Jersey in the early to mid 1950's. I am currently studying these to try to distinguish the other dates. He also said he made these in 1939, 1946, 1947, 1953 and one more date he never disclosed. I notice the 2 pictured above were struck with the most noticeable die. They both have the hole in the bottom of the left upright of R in PLURABUS in the reverse. He claims he used 6 different reverse dies. I have other 1944 Henning nickels without this defect. Those are the ones I am looking at to find other die markers so I can find other dates that are currently circulating. I have found a 1939 with the hole in the R reverse.
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pyrbob's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2008  06:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oops spelled pluribus wrong above. Spell check didn't catch that one. To answer your question as to why. Henning had an earlier run in for counterfeiting paper money and he decided that coins would be under the rarar more. He made dies for a nickel, dime, quater and half. He said the nickel was the best so he used that one. He wasn't a coin collector so he didn't realize he made an obverse from the 1944 and then made a reverse from a non wartime nickel. The 1944 was his first die but when he took a bunch of rolls to the bank the teller opened them up to count them and made the comment that it's funny they are all the same date. Henning said that's when he decided to do other nickel dates. He claimed to have made 6 different obverses and 6 different reverses. The one reverse has the hole in the R but the other five are not as easy to distinquish yet. So they still circulate. It was in 1956 that Henning went to jail for 4 years. He is not living anymore so it is now up to us to solve the mystery of finding his coins.
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jbuck's Avatar
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yellow1053's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2008  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow1053 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that is interesting. Are they all the correct weight and composition?
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KurtS's Avatar
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5318 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2008  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...made the comment that it's funny they are all the same date.

I would've loved to watch how that scene unfolded. If it were a movie, I could see William H. Macy playing the part, and stammering to explain himself as the failed nickel counterfeiter.
Edited by KurtS
07/23/2008 12:19 am
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2008  06:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are that close that the mint confiscated the blanks Henning made and used them. I don't know if they remelted them and remade blanks or if they used them as is. There is a small card covered book written in 1982 by Dwight Stuckey called "The Counterfeit 1944 Jefferson nickel" with all of this info in it. It is hard to find. I bought my copy in a Kolbe auction. I have over 20 of these nickels so far and I found the nickels with the hole in the R usually weigh 5.2-5.4 g and the ones without the hole weigh 4.8-4.9g. When I finish roll searching nickels I always look over my 1939, 1946, 1947 and 1953 nickels for the hole and I weigh all of them. The nickels from this year weigh 4.8-5.0 g. So Henning nickels are the correct composition and weight. The way he was caught was coin collectors from NJ (I think it was the Camden NJ Coin Club) found the nickels with the wrong reverse and reported it to the mint. It took a long time for them to start looking for Henning because at first they said the nickels were authentic. The one thing I noticed with these is the finish on the nickels is always rough or finely pitted looking and the details are not sharp on the building even if the edges of the lettering look sharp. I think his dies were made like this. Also the nickels sometimes have a darker color. Not as dark as War Nickels but a little darker than the regular mintage nickel. I have been thinking about writing an article on these for the Numismatist but I want to look them over more to try to find other diagnostics to look for first. I plan on taking some to the Baltimore ANA show to get some pointers from some of the experts.
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yellow1053's Avatar
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 Posted 07/23/2008  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yellow1053 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's cool both of mine weigh 5.5 grams each. when you say they are the correct compostion, I am assuming you mean the nickel composition, not the silver right? I'll have to start looking for these now, you've got my curiosity peaked. :)
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2008  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I remember what I've read in the Stuckey booklet, the composition of the planchets was a commercially available alloy that was similar but not exactly the same as the Mint's coppernickel composition. Alloy percentages slightly different and I believe there was a third metal present. If I remember right he didn't produce the planchets himself and had them supplied ready made.

The counterfeiting of the nickels was not an extremely profitable venture. When he was arrested he was working on new plates for a counterfeit five dollar bill.
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2008  06:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder, tonight I will have to pull my booklet out and reread that area. I think you are right that he did buy the alloy in sheets and punched out his own blanks. But I lent the book out and just recently got it back so I'll take a look. Yellow, yes it is the nickel composition and not the silver. Check out all of your 1939, 1946, 1947 and 1953 nickels for the hole in the R and the weight. Let me know how you make out.
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cheungsta's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2008  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cheungsta to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can someone post a close up picture of the hole in the R? Now I've got another thing to look for while nickel roll-hunting =)
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2008  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a closeup of the R on my 1939 Henning nickel. Good luck!

1944-War-Nickel-Or-Fake?-Henning-Nickel?
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 07/26/2008  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dead picture
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2008  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know what happened. Let's try this again. Here is the R in my 1939 Henning nickel.

1944-War-Nickel-Or-Fake?-Henning-Nickel?
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