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Replies: 15 / Views: 14,902 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
974 Posts |
I bought this raw about two years ago from a reputable dealer via ebay. As some of you know I was consider selling this coin and buy other needed coins for my type set. I took it to a local dealer and he believes it is fake.  Truthfully I don't know...I wouldn't have paid $350 for a fake, knowingly. Even though it has been cleaned, under magnification it does have a faint grainy appearance which I figured was the result of the cleaning. It feels and sounds really (silver). So I pulled the only photos of 1840 I could find and wanted to get someone else's opinion. Mine:  From Famous Auction Company:  ANACS Certified:  FAKE on ebay:  Mine:  From Famous Auction Company:  ANACS CERTIFIED:  Edited by Nelrak 08/07/2008 02:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
This is a hard one.
The reverse looks like EF details, the obverse looks AU+.
I'm thinking maybe the reverse "wear" is actually due to a weak strike.
I usually don't grade coins when I'm this fuzzy on what grade to assign, but I feel bad that this has been sitting here all day with no input. Maybe this inexpert opinion will "break the ice."
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
Details look AU, but the cleaning was pretty harsh. Would carrying it as a pocket piece make it look nicer ?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
974 Posts |
Quote: Would carrying it as a pocket piece make it look nicer ? I am considering sending this one into ANACS.  I've lived with the way the coin looks for over 2 years now and I think it looks fine, my problem with it is it's not a proof! It's not a dull coin as the photos portray. In hand, the hairlines are barely visible, though you can see them under magification. Everyone I've shown my 7070 to, still thinks it's a nice piece, you would too if you can live with the fact that it had been cleaned at one time. I've posted new photos that better represents the condition and color and closer to it's actual "in-hand" appearance rather than the ones the seller had on his ad. Remember it's not a flat dull coin.
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
EF45 Details is what I see. The head strike is wonderful. Even with the cleaning, I'd be proud to add it to my collection. I don't know that I would even send it in to be graded since it's for your 7070. I see no reason to suspect that it's not genuine and the details on this coin speak for themselves. 
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
I would put the obv at VF-30 and rev at EF-45
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Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts |
I don't know to much about this series, but it does look questionable. Her nose looks a little off. The fifth star up on the left looks to be something going on at the rim area. The denticles (I guess that's what they are called) look very mushy almost like they were cast. Take my opinion with a grain of salt as I am not up on counterfeits.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1415 Posts |
Looks real to me.  I think the differences you are seeing has to do with ware. If you check the reverse on the 'fake' notice how crisp 'United states' is as compared to the field. Your coin shows even ware. SEND HER OFF!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Ken, Since you opened Pandora's box ... I didn't comment on the coin when it first appeared for a grade, but something didn't set right with me on the appearance. I was first drawn to the numbers in the date. The bottom serifs of the '1' and '4' looked blocked, not tapered. Then I always check the denticles for uniformity and depth. They looked non-uniform and lacked depth in some spots. Have you put the coin on an accurate digital scale? With the sophistication of copies lately, I won't even look at one on ebay unless it's certified by PCGS, NGC or ANACS.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
974 Posts |
I haven't weighed it as of yet. It's an awesome fake if it is one. Live and learn.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2373 Posts |
Liberty's bottom lip is swollen and the peice of ground at the base at 8 o'clock looks different to me. I am a novice at this and probably wouldn't have noticed it without this forum. nlp
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
This is bothering me a lot, because I like raw Seated coins. I buy well-circulated coins from reputable dealers, so am not as concerned that I am buying fakes. But the quality of the fakes showing up now in Seated coinage is disturbingly good, they've moved beyond just the rare dates, and the $300-600 coin market is an attractive place to operate. I can understand the dealer's hesitance to authenticate. They're aren't that many seated experts, and the non-specialist dealer doesn't want to be stuck with a piece of junk.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
974 Posts |
thq, I agree with you 100%. Seated Liberty coinage is by far my favorite type. Just for piece of mind, I may send it into ANACS and see what they say...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
Is it just me or does the shield not look the same on all those coins that are known real? Different dies? Really I can't tell if your is fake or not. I hope it is real.
-SWUSC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
Hard to tell, Nelrak. You've given us good photos to compare, but not at the same magnification. I agree with others that Liberty's nose is wrong. Also, I don't like the appearance of Liberty's hair or of the eagle's feathers on the reverse, but all of my concerns could be the result of lighting used in the photograph.
Accurate weight and accurate measurements will go a long way toward settling the matter.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Sorry Nelrak, I have to vote fake. The face/nose/hair are all wrong and the lettering on the reverse is wrong, check the "D" and "L" in DOL between the genuine examples and your coin. Send her in and see what ANACS says but be prepared for bad news. thg is correct, the level of the new counterfeits is scarey, I very rarely buy anything sight unseen anymore. I now stick to dealing with dealers and collectors I know and trust, that have an open end return policy on coins determined to be fake. It's a shame too, when ebay first started up, it was a great place to buy coins but now the scam artists have moved in and ebay doesn't seem to care how many fakes get sold. Please keep us posted when the coin comes back as to the outcome.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 14,902 |
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