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Celyon Quarter Farthing 1/4

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 Posted 01/27/2019  01:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Serendib to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello Everyone,


I would like to get the experts advice on this coin, How do you identify a fake one from the genuine by other than the Weight and diameter? And how much does it value?

Thanks in advance.
Celyon-Quarter-Farthing-1/4
Celyon-Quarter-Farthing-1/4
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 01/27/2019  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Very nice coin!
I cannot comment on its authenticity, but based on other examples of this type which have sold on ebay recently, I think you could expect this coin to sell for perhaps $30 on ebay (a nicer example recently sold for $46), even with what looks like evidence of an old cleaning, or perhaps a bit of corrosion on the reverse.
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 Posted 01/27/2019  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Serendib to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I assumed quarter farthing were valuable than that , I was offered one for $55.00. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer.
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Anaximander's Avatar
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 Posted 01/27/2019  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Anaximander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just did a search on ebay uk for quarter farthings. Reasonable quality coins are being offered at around £80 to £120. Top quality ones are around x2 or x3.

Except I saw a group of 5 with different dates offered for £19 !!!

I bought this with both eyes open. At that price it is too good to be true and almost certainly is. At less than £4 each for possibly modern counterfeits, I will accept that. Once they arrive I will put up pics for comment.

Your coin appears to have remains of a coating between letters on the reverse. I also note wonky letters above Victorias head. Can anyone cast light on this?
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 01/27/2019  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can we get larger photos?
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 01/27/2019  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Reasonable quality coins are being offered at around £80 to £120

I would be curious if a sold items search shows up any that have actually sold.

Authentic ones (presumably) can be seen here: https://www.coinarchives.com/30ae38...age00830.jpg
That group sold for 320 pounds in October, or an average of less than $100 each.

I agree those Ns don't look right, though the link shows some misalignment of the Ns on the 1839.
Edited by tdziemia
01/27/2019 1:55 pm
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 Posted 01/27/2019  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 01/27/2019  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Anaximander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did an ebay "sold" search out of curiosity. Prices varied enormously.

I did find objects described as "pobjoy anniversary restrikes", sometimes mentioned as 150th and once as 175th anniversary. The latter is impressive for an original issued in the early 1850's. Where is my tardis...?

I could not find any details on these alleged restrikes. Does anyone have any info on when they were released, and how to identify them? Was Pobjoy even involved at all, or was their name unofficially borrowed?
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 Posted 01/27/2019  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Plated antique imitations of this coin selling for about $3 are easily found.
So my guess is that a density test might reveal if the metal is proper.
Maybe a microscopic look at the edge.
I would do these things if I had one.
And certainly the weight and measures also.
Edited by Albert
01/27/2019 3:19 pm
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Anaximander's Avatar
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 Posted 01/27/2019  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Anaximander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Peck states the weight range of a quarter farthing is 16.6 to 19.2 grains, with an average of 18.13.

At 15.432 grains = 1g, I work these out as 1.08g, 1.24g and 1.17g respectively to 2dp.

Clayton gives diameter as 13.5mm.
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 Posted 01/27/2019  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Something odd to me looks like the obverse in the OP is the same coin you see when you click the link in the 7th post.
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 Posted 01/27/2019  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin as shown does not look good to my eye. All of the examples I have seen are far sharper.

You will need a very accurate scale accurate to 0.001 at the very least and a 0.0001 gram scale would be preferable. I am NOT referring to the cheap scales with three or four digit readouts. Most non-laboratory balances have a potential 2% error rate - too high for this purpose since 2% of 20 grams is 0.4 grams. Expect to spend north of $500 for a scale of that accuracy.
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 Posted 01/27/2019  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The OP photo might just be poor.
Other photos of copy coins of this type are much sharper.
To prove my method of measure and calculation on my lab balance, I did test several known metals and copper did come out to be 8.96
That's what this topic coin should be.
It was pricey but it what was needed for good results.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 01/28/2019  07:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The coin as shown does not look good to my eye. All of the examples I have seen are far sharper.


Quote:
The OP photo might just be poor.
Other photos of copy coins of this type are much sharper.


I agree that examples I take as "real" (e.g. the lot that sold at Spink) have sharper lettering.
The earlier link I posted shows that examples of this reproduction (listed as such) are selling for $3.50 on a site called bonanza, and that the OP's coin is listed on a couple of sites for $50 and 65.

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 Posted 02/07/2019  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Serendib to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone for all the information, the coin arrived yesterday and after examining the coin and looking at the images provided here, its fake. now I have to contact the seller and send it back.
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 Posted 05/19/2020  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gdobie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I, like you, found these same coins for a price that was to good to pass up. Five for $28. I was surprised to find so many fake ones on ebay.
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